SELECT. CANADIAN HYDROGEN ENERGY
WILL COME TO ORDER THE. GOOD
MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN,
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
AH I'VE TOLD EVERYONE THAT THE
BEST OF THE BEST WHEN IT COMES
TO HYDROGEN, THE MINDS THOSE WHO
ARE INVOLVED ARE HERE TODAY AND
I THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. SO
THE SENATE CONTINUES TO WELCOME
THE PUBLIC, AND IT'S PROVIDED
ACCESS TO BOTH IN PERSON AND
TELECONFERENCE PARTICIPATION FOR
THE PUBLIC COMMENTS. FOR
INDIVIDUALS WISHING TO PROVIDE
PUBLIC COMMENTS VIA THE
TELECONFERENCE SERVICE TO
PARTICIPANT TOÀN NUMBER AND IT'S
SO FREE. IT'S 887. CORRECTION
877. 8772 TO 6. 8163 AND THE
ACCESS CODE IS 1680. 51 I SAY
AGAIN. 16 8051 TODAY'S HEARING.
UH WE WILL BE HEARING FROM THE
PANELIST AND EXPERTS AND EXPERT
WITNESSES ON THE AGENDA PRIOR TO
TAKING ANY PUBLIC COMMENT. WHAT
WE'VE HEARD ALL THE WITNESSES.
WE WILL HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT
PERIOD FOR THOSE WHO WISH TO
COMMENT ON TODAY'S AGENDA. SO
ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU FOR BEING
HERE AND THE COMMITTEE WILL
BEGIN. AND I'D LIKE TO SHARE
SOME WORDS WITH YOU AND MY
ENTHUSIASM AND SUPPORT OF YOU
AND YOUR INDUSTRY AND ALL THAT
YOU DO. AND I THANK YOU ONCE
AGAIN FOR BEING HERE. CALIFORNIA
IS A WORLD LEADER WHEN IT COMES
TO DEVELOPMENTS OF AND
DEPLOYMENT OF CLEAN RENEWABLE
HYDROGEN PROJECTS AND
INFRASTRUCTURE. POLICIES PASSED
BY THE LEGISLATURE. AH, TO
SUPPORT. RENEWABLE HYDROGEN
PROJECTS AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND ANY POLICIES PASSED BY THE
LEGISLATURE IN THAT WORLD. IS
TOTALLY SUPPORT THAT WE ALL NEED
RIGHT NOW. AND FROM ALL THE
STATE AGENCIES, THE GOVERNOR'S
OFFICE HAS PROPELLED CALIFORNIA
TO THE FOREFRONT OF GLOBAL
EFFORTS TO THE TRANSITION
TOWARDS A MORE SUSTAINABLE
ENERGY LANDSCAPE. CALIFORNIA'S
COMMITMENT TO REDUCING
GREENHOUSE GASSES, GAS EMISSIONS
AND FOSTERING INNOVATION. HAS
PAVED THE WAY FOR ADVANCEMENT IN
THE HYDROGEN TECHNOLOGY. THROUGH
STRATEGIC PARTNERSHIP WITH
RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS SUCH AS
THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA AND
INDUSTRY LEADERS. CALIFORNIA HAS
MANAGED TO CREATE A ROBUST
ECOSYSTEM THAT NURTURES THE
GROWTH OF CLEAN HYDROGEN
INITIATIVES. THIS COLLABORATIVE
APPROACH IS NOT ONLY ACCELERATED
THE DEVELOPMENT OF HYDROGEN
PRODUCTION AND ITS METHODS SUCH
AS ELECTROLYSIS AND METHANE
REFORMING, BUT IT ALSO HAS
SPURRED THE CREATION OF CUTTING
AGE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR STORAGE,
TRANSPORTATION AND UTILIZATION
OF HYDROGEN ACROSS VARIOUS
SECTORS. CALIFORNIA IS A GREAT
EXAMPLE OF HOW DEDICATED POLICY
MAKING AND CROSS SECTOR
COOPERATION CAN DRIVE THE
TRANSITION TO A MORE SUSTAINABLE
AND HYDROGEN POWERED FUTURE. AND
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
. THE FUTURE OF CALIFORNIA THE
FUTURE OF HYDROGEN, HOWEVER,
MORE CAN BE DONE IF CALIFORNIA
WANTS TO REMAIN A LEADER IN THE
SECTOR. WE HAVE TO ACT NOW. COME
TOGETHER, ALL SECTORS. HYDROGEN
ENERGY IS STILL A RELATIVELY NEW
SECTOR AND MAKE SURE IT GROWS.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE IT GROWS.
UH AND WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO
PROMOTE THE POLICIES AND SEND
THE RIGHT MESSAGE AND THE RIGHT
SIGNALS TO THE INDUSTRY AND THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SIGNALS THAT
SAY. CALIFORNIA IS OPEN FOR
BUSINESS WHEN IT COMES TO
HYDROGEN. THAT IS WHY I'M SO
THRILLED TO HEAR DIRECTLY FROM
SOME OF YOU. THE MOST IMPORTANT
HYDROGEN STAKEHOLDERS ARE HERE
TODAY. THE PANELISTS HERE TODAY
WILL SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES OF
WHAT WORKS IN CALIFORNIA AND
WHAT STEPS WE SHOULD TAKE TO
CREATE EVEN MORE SUSTAINABLE
HYDROGEN ECONOMY AND THANK YOU
ONCE AGAIN FOR BEING HERE TODAY.
AND NOW WE'LL BEGIN WITH OUR
FIRST PRESENTER. DR ADAM WEBBER.
AND DR WEBBER IS WITH LAWRENCE
BERKELEY NATIONAL LABORATORY, DR
WEBBER. IS A SENIOR SCIENTIST
AND HYDROGEN AND FUEL CELL
TECHNOLOGIES PROGRAM MANAGER AT
LAWRENCE BERKELEY NATIONAL
LABORATORY. HE'S BEEN WORKING ON
HYDROGEN AND FUEL CELLS FOR OVER
TWO DECADES AND HIS CURRENT CO
DIRECTOR OF THE MILLION MILE
FUEL CELL TRUCK CONSORTIUM,
FUNDED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENERGY TO IMPROVE HEAVY DUTY
FUEL CELL APPLICATIONS OVER THE
LAST TWO YEARS. HE WAS
INSTRUMENTAL IN THE
ESTABLISHMENT AND DESIGN OF THE
ALLIANCE FOR RENEWABLE CLEAN
HYDROGEN ENERGY SYSTEMS. KNOWN
AS ARCHES. WE'RE HERE. WHERE HE
CURRENTLY ACTING AS CHIEF
TECHNOLOGY OFFICER. WE
APPRECIATE DR WEBBER MAKING THE
TIME AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR
PRESENTATION TODAY. DR WEBBER,
YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK YOU,
SENATOR. AND THANK YOU TO THE
COMMITTEE FOR THIS CHANCE TO GO
OVER BOTH WHAT WE DO AT LAWRENCE
BERKELEY NATIONAL LABORATORY AS
WELL AS WHAT WE ARE DOING WITHIN
THE ARCHES INITIATIVE. SO IF I
JUST GET IN, WHY ARE WE YOU
KNOW, FOCUSED RIGHT NOW ON
HYDROGEN, AND SO IF WE LOOK AT
WAYS TO DE CARBONIZED, AND WHEN
WE START TALKING ABOUT C 02
EMISSIONS, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE
HAVE LARGE EMISSION SECTORS THAT
ARE HARD TO DE CARBONIZED. AND
SO THOSE ARE THINGS LIKE THE
POWER SECTOR THAT YOU CAN SEE
THERE UNDER ELECTRICITY
GENERATION. THINGS LIKE HEAVY
DUTY TRANSPORTATION, AND THIS IS
A SPECIALLY FOR CALIFORNIA. IF
YOU LOOK AT THE HEAVY DUTY
TRANSPORTATION, UNLIKE YOU KNOW
30% THAT IT IS ACROSS THE NATION
WERE CLOSER TO 40% IN TERMS OF
OUR C 02 EMISSIONS FOR THE
OVERALL TRANSPORTATION SECTOR.
BUT REALLY, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT
SEO, TOO. IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT
CLIMATE CHANGE. IT'S ALSO ABOUT
AIR QUALITY. IT'S ALSO ABOUT
POLLUTION. SO WHAT YOU CAN SEE
HERE REALLY THE AVERAGE
EMISSIONS AND LOOKING AT HEAVY
DUTY TRUCKS VERSUS LIGHT DUTY
VEHICLES AND WHAT YOU CAN SEE,
ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF
PARTICULAR EMISSIONS WHERE YOU
SEE IN TERMS OF NOX EMISSIONS
THERE SUBSTANTIALLY A LOT MORE
SO, ALTHOUGH THESE TRUCKS ARE
LOWER IN NUMBER THAN LIGHT DUTY
VEHICLES THEY GO FURTHER. THEY
RUN LONGER AND SO THAT CAUSES
MORE EMISSIONS. FURTHERMORE,
WELL, WE CAN SEE IT IS THIS KIND
OF BASICALLY DISPROPORTIONATELY
AFFECTS THE DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES THAT ARE LIVING
ALONG THE TRANSPORT QUARTERS.
THEY'RE LIVING IN THE PORTS. AND
SO THIS IS ONE WAY IF WE USE
HYDROGEN TO REALLY DE CARBONIZED
AND D POLLUTE THE LOCAL
ENVIRONMENTS SO THAT WE CAN MOVE
FORWARD FOR EVERYBODY IN THE
BETTERMENT OF CALIFORNIANS. SO
HOW DOES HYDROGEN DO THIS? SO
HYDROGEN IS VERY CRITICAL TO
UNDERSTAND THAT HYDROGEN IS
REALLY AN ENERGY CARRIER. AND SO
WHAT WE DO IS WE TAKE SOME KIND
OF PRIMARY ENERGY INPUT
RENEWABLES, FOR EXAMPLE, WE USE
THAT TO CONVERT WATER TO
HYDROGEN. SO WE'RE STORING THAT
ENERGY FROM THE SUN LIGHTER FROM
WHEN INTO A HYDROGEN BOND INTO A
CHEMICAL BOND. AND THEN ONCE WE
HAVE HYDROGEN, THERE'S A
PLETHORA OF DIFFERENT
OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE CAN USE SO
WE CAN USE HYDROGEN AND
INDUSTRY. WE CAN USE HYDROGEN
FOR TRANSPORTATION FUELS. WE CAN
USE HYDROGEN FOR SOMETHING LIKE
POWER, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE START
TALKING ABOUT SEASONAL STORAGE
AND LONG DURATION. STORAGE.
HYDROGEN IS VERY KEY, BECAUSE
THAT'S THE WAY THAT WE CAN GET
INTO CHEMICAL BONDS AND ALSO FOR
CALIFORNIA. WE CAN START
THINKING ABOUT AGRICULTURE SO
HYDROGEN AND NITROGEN ARE
FORMING AMMONIA. AND SO NOW WE
CAN THINK OF. IF WE HAVE KIND OF
CLEAN HYDROGEN. WE CAN START
MAKING CLEAN AMMONIA
DOMESTICALLY WITHIN THE STATE.
AND SO IF WE WANT TO LOOK AT
KIND OF WHAT THE MARKET
POTENTIALS ARE, AND THAT'S KIND
OF SHOWN HERE ON THIS SLIDE AS
WE START TO DECREASE THE COST OF
HYDROGEN, WE START TO OPEN UP
KIND OF COMMODITY MARKETS, SO
THE FIRST MARKETS ARE PRIMARILY
GOING TO BE THE MORE EXPENSIVE
ONES. SO WHERE YOU'RE COMPETING
AGAINST DIESEL FUELS FOR
TRANSPORTATION WHEN WE'RE
STARTING TO LOOK AT SUSTAINABLE
AVIATION, FUELS AND HYDROGEN FOR
AVIATION, WHICH WE'LL HEAR ABOUT
TODAY. AS WELL AS AMMONIA. BUT
THEN ONCE WE START GETTING BELOW
THAT KIND OF $2 PER KILOGRAM,
THEN WE START OPENING UP SOME OF
THE LARGER KIND OF ENERGY
STORAGE MARKET, SYNTHETIC FUELS
AND INDUSTRIAL APPLICATIONS. AND
PRIMARILY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS.
THIS IS WHY THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENERGY CAME UP WITH THEIR
HYDROGEN SHOTS. SO THE HYDROGEN
ENERGY EARTH SHOT WHICH IS THE
FIRST OF THE DUI ENERGY EARTH
SHOTS. WHICH WAS REALLY TO DRIVE
THE PRODUCTION. COST OF CLEAN
HYDROGEN DOWN TO $1 FOR 1 KG
WITHIN A DECADE. AND SO WHAT
WE'RE TRYING TO DO AT THE
LABORATORY AS WE LOOK AT NOT
JUST HYDROGEN PRODUCTION, BUT
ACROSS THE WHOLE VALUE STREAM
AND UNDERSTAND WHAT WE CAN DO.
SO WHAT DO WE DO AT THE LAB? SO
THE LAB WE ARE FOCUSED ON
TRANSLATIONAL SCIENCE, SO GOING
TO SYSTEMATIC RESEARCH OF BOTH
FROM FUNDAMENTAL TO APPLIED
SCIENCE TO SOLVE THE APPLIED
PROBLEMS, AND WE TIE THAT
TOGETHER VERY MUCH WITH ENERGY
ANALYSIS. WE TIE THAT WITH LIFE
CYCLE ASSESSMENTS, TECHNO
ECONOMIC ANALYSIS, SO REALLY
MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SOLVING THE
PROBLEMS THAT WE NEED TO SOLVE.
AT THAT TIME WE'VE BEEN WORKING
ON HYDROGEN FOR OVER THREE
DECADES IN DIFFERENT CAPACITIES
, BOTH ACROSS THAT KIND OF
FUNDAMENTAL TO APPLY SPECTRUM.
WE FOCUS HOLISTICALLY ON THE
ISSUES TO ADVANCE THE SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGIES TO ESTABLISH
INNOVATION PIPELINES. AND WE
OPERATE AS A NATIONAL LABORATORY
AS AN HONEST BROKER IN TERMS OF
CONVENIENT AUTHORITY IN TERMS OF
VALUATION OF PRE COMPETITIVE
TECHNOLOGIES AND HELPING
INDUSTRY AS WE CAN. IF WE WANT
TO LOOK ACROSS THAT SPECTRUM,
AND HERE THIS IS IN TERMS OF
TECHNOLOGY READINESS LEVELS SO
BASICALLY FROM ONE OF THE
FUNDAMENTAL SCIENCE TO NINE OF
COMPLETE DEPLOYMENT, WE'RE
INTERACTING ACROSS THAT WHOLE
VALUE CHAIN. SO WE HAVE BASIC
CONSORTIA SUCH AS THE LIQUID
SUNLIGHT ALLIANCE, THE JOINT
CENTER ARTIFICIAL PHOTOSYNTHESIS
. PART OF THIS WAS FUNDED BY
SISI MATCHING DOLLARS FROM FROM
D O E. UP TO KIND OF DEAL. WE
APPLIED CONSORTIUM TO THAT YOU
CAN SEE THERE AND ENDING IN AND
TRULY DEPLOYMENT, WHICH IS
ARCHES. IF WE LOOK AT KIND OF
WHAT WE DO, WE FOCUS ON MAKING
HYDROGEN AND PRODUCTION HERE.
WE'RE FOCUSED ON REDUCING THE
COST AND THE DURABILITY OF THE
COMPONENTS AND THE ELECTROLYZERS
LOOKING AT ADVANCED PATHWAYS
LIKE THE SOLAR PHOTOCHEMICAL
PATHWAYS THAT CAN GENERATE
HYDROGEN, PERHAPS IN THE FUTURE,
VERY INEXPENSIVELY. WE LOOK AT
STORAGE OF HYDROGEN, SO LOOKING
AT NOVEL MATERIALS THAT CAN
STORE IT, FOR EXAMPLE ON BOARD
VEHICLES, BUT THEN ALSO LOOKING
AT CHEMICAL CARRIERS, WHETHER
THAT'S AMMONIA, WHETHER THAT'S
METHANOL AND WAYS TO INTER
CONVERT THAT VERY EFFICIENTLY AS
WELL AS LOOK AT GEOLOGIC STORAGE
AND GEOLOGIC STORAGE HAS A LOT
OF POTENTIAL IN CALIFORNIA, BUT
IT'S KIND OF UNTAPPED AND
UNKNOWN. AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT WE'RE DEFINITELY INTERESTED
IN EXAMINING. AND THEN IN TERMS
OF USE, WE DO A LOT OF WORK ON
FUEL CELLS AS MENTIONED I'M, THE
CO DIRECTOR OF THE MILLION MILE
FIELD SALT TRUCK CONSORTIUM, SO
FOCUSED ON, UH, ADVANCING FUEL
CELLS FOR HEAVY DUTY
APPLICATIONS. BUT THEN WE ALSO
LOOK AT SOME HYDROGEN COMBUSTION
TO REDUCE THE NOX EMISSIONS AS
WELL AS FUEL CELLS FOR OTHER
APPLICATIONS. AND THEN WE TIE
THAT ALL TOGETHER WITH THE
SYSTEMS ANALYSIS. AND SO THAT
MIGHT BE ANALYSIS OF A PLANT
THAT MIGHT BE ANALYSIS OF THE
WHOLE ARCHES, SYSTEM AND
ECOSYSTEM OR IT MIGHT JUST BE
ANALYSIS OF A SINGLE PROCESS
ONCE AGAIN TO MAKE SURE THAT
WE'RE KIND OF SOLVING THE RIGHT
PROBLEMS. THE CORE OF WHAT
LAWRENCE BERKELEY NATIONAL
LABORATORY DOES AS A LOT OF
CROSS CUTTING EFFORTS ON
ADVANCED COMPUTATION ON ADVANCE
, UNDERSTANDING, ADVANCED
CHARACTERIZATION, AND SO WE
BRING THAT TO BEAR. AND I JUST
LIKE TO NOTE THAT ACROSS THE
LABORATORY HYDROGEN ACTUALLY
TOUCHES 10 DIFFERENT SCIENTIFIC
DIVISIONS AS ONE OF THE BROADEST
THINGS THAT WE RESEARCH AT THE
LABORATORY, AND WE BRING THOSE
PEOPLE TOGETHER IN CO LOCATED
FACILITIES, INCLUDING SOME THAT
WERE FUNDED FROM CALIFORNIA LIKE
CHEW HALL, WHERE WE DO MOST OF
OUR ELECTROLYSIS AND FEEL SO
RESEARCH AS NOTED, WERE PART OF
A LOT OF DIFFERENT CONSORTIUM TO
AND HAVE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS,
WHETHER A DEPUTY DIRECTOR OR CO
DIRECTOR TYPE POSITION ALL THESE
CONSORTIA. H TWO NEW FOCUSED A
LOT ON ELECTROLYSIS AND ADVANCED
ELECTROLYSIS OF THE MILITARY
TRUCK AS I MENTIONED ON FUEL
CELLS AND THEN HYDROGEN ON SOME
OF THE ADVANCED PATHWAYS AND
HIGH MARK ON SOME OF THE
MATERIAL SCIENCE CHALLENGES. SO
IF I GO INTO A LITTLE BIT MORE
DETAIL, UM, WHEN WE TALK
HYDROGEN, WE'RE KIND OF MOVING
AWAY FROM COLORS. AS YOU KNOW,
WE'RE MOVING TOWARDS REALLY JUST
EMISSIONS, AND THAT'S THE WAY
THAT WE CAN DEFINE CLEAN
EMISSIONS. THAT'S THE WAY IT
KIND OF DEAL. WE IS DEFINING IT
IN TERMS OF THE LIFE CYCLE CO.
TWO EMISSIONS WHEN YOU'RE
GENERATING THE HYDROGEN, AND SO
YOU CAN SEE HERE DIFFERENT
PATHWAYS. WE FOCUS HERE ON BOTH
HIGH AND LOW TEMPERATURE
ELECTROLYSIS. OF COURSE, IT WILL
DEPEND ON WHERE YOU'RE GETTING
THE ELECTRICITY FROM. IF WE'RE
GETTING IT FROM GRIDS, IT'S
GOING TO BE ONE VALUE. IF WE'RE
GETTING IT FROM PURE RENEWABLES.
IT'S GOING TO BE A MUCH LOWER
VALUE TODAY, ALTHOUGH IN THE
FUTURE WE EXPECT THAT GAP TO
CLOSE SIGNIFICANTLY. WE CAN ALSO
LOOK AT BIOGENIC SOURCES AND
HERE AND NOW YOU CAN START TO
GET NEGATIVE CARBON EMISSIONS AS
WELL AS DO THINGS LIKE CLEAN UP
DEFORESTATION, ISSUES AND FORCE
MANAGEMENT. BUT WHAT I WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT IS REALLY HOW DO WE
GET TO THAT $1 PRODUCTION
TARGETS? SO IF WE LOOK AT
ELECTROLYSIS AND WHERE WE ARE
TODAY, WE'RE NOT AT A DOLLAR.
ROSY PROJECTIONS SHOWED HERE THE
LEVEL LESS COST IS THREE OR $4.
UM THAT'S ONCE AGAIN JUST PURE
PRODUCTION COST ON THE
ELECTROLYSIS. AND WHAT WE CAN
SEE IS THERE'S A COUPLE WAYS TO
IMPROVE IT. BUT WHEN WE HAVE
DONE THE ANALYSIS, ECONOMIES OF
SCALE WILL GET US SOMEWHAT.
WHICH IS KIND OF THAT THIRD
GREEN BAR THAT YOU SEE THERE
BRINGING THAT DOWN. BUT THOSE
OTHER BARS ARE REALLY TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND AND IMPROVE THE
EFFICIENCY AND THE DURABILITY OF
THE SYSTEMS. AND THAT'S WHERE
THE LAB IS FOCUSED ON DOING THAT
. AND SO, ALTHOUGH WE DO WANT
DEPLOYMENT, ALTHOUGH WE DO WANT
ARCHES AND SCALING, WE DO HAVE
TO WORRY ABOUT INNOVATION. AT
THE SAME TIME AND FIGURE OUT
WAYS TO GET THAT INNOVATION TO
THE MARKET PLACE FASTER.
SIMILARLY WHEN WE LOOK AT
VEHICLES, THIS IS THE TRANSIT
FIVE BY FIVE ANALYSIS, FUEL CELL
ELECTRIC BUSSES COMPARED TO
DIESEL COMPARED TO BATTERY. WHAT
WE SEE IS AN ALMOST ALL MANNERS
. THE FUEL CELL ELECTRIC BUSSES
HAVE HIGHER UP TIME IN TERMS OF
AVAILABILITY, HAVE HIGHER
RELIABILITY AND HAVE SIGNIFICANT
MILEAGE ALREADY ON THOSE THOSE
FUEL CELLS. IF WE LOOK IN THE
OPERATIONAL COSTS SIDE TO THE
FAR RIGHT, WE DO HAVE LESS COST
FOR MAINTENANCE. BUT THIS IS
REALLY DOMINATED BY THE FUEL
COST. AND SO THIS IS WHERE WE
HAVE TO BRING DOWN THE HYDROGEN
COST TO BE COMPETITIVE. BUT WE
KNOW AND AS WE SEE IN ARCHES
THERE ARE OVER 1000 BUSSES
PROPOSED IN 13 TRANSIT AGENCIES
THAT ARE REALLY WANTING TO MOVE
TOWARDS HYDROGEN. AT THOSE KIND
OF VALUES. IF WE LOOK AT THE
LONG HAUL TRUCKING TO THE CLASS,
A TRUCKING BUT YOU CAN SEE HERE
ARE SOME COMPARISONS BETWEEN, UM
THE CLEANER TASK FORCE ANALYSIS
OF LOOKING AT BATTERY ELECTRIC
TRUCKS VERSUS FUEL CELL ELECTRIC
TRUCKS. AND REALLY BECAUSE OF
THE WAY THE SCALING WORKS IN
TERMS OF THE WAY BATTERIES SCALE
WHOLE UNITS VERSUS FUEL CELLS
SCALE IN TERMS OF JUST ADDING AN
EXTRA COMPONENT SINCE IT'S AN
ENERGY CARRIER, ITS ENERGY
CONVERSION, NOT ENERGY STORAGE
BY ITSELF, WHERE YOU CAN SEE AS
WE SCALE THAT, UM BECAUSE OF THE
MILES AND THE WEIGHT PENALTIES
THE FUEL CELL ELECTRIC TRUCKS.
CAN GO THE SAME DISTANCE OR
CARRY MORE GOODS FOR THAT
DISTANCE CAN ALSO HAVE A HIGHER
UP TIME. THE RECHARGE TIME IS
MUCH MORE OF A DROP IN
REPLACEMENT. AND SO THIS IS ONE
OF THE BIG REASONS WHY WE'RE
SEEING A LOT OF ADOPTION AND A
LOT OF DESIRE TO MOVE TOWARDS
FIELD SO ELECTRIC TRUCKS BUT OF
COURSE, AS WE MOVE THERE WERE
GOOD CHANGING FROM A CAPEX TO
OPEC'S MARKET. TO A CERTAIN
EXTENT, SO ONCE AGAIN, FUEL
COSTS BECOMES VERY IMPORTANT,
BUT STILL WE HAVE TO IMPROVE THE
MATERIALS. WE HAVE TO IMPROVE
THE DURABILITY OF THE SYSTEMS
BECAUSE NOW WE'RE ASKING THEM TO
GO A MILLION MILES INSTEAD OF
SOMETHING LIKE 150,000 MILES,
LIKE IN A NORMAL LIGHT DUTY
VEHICLE, AND SO THAT'S ONCE
AGAIN WHAT WE'RE FOCUSED ON OF
INCREASING STACK DURABILITY,
STACK EFFICIENCY. AND REDUCING
EXPERIENCE EXPENSIVE MATERIALS
THAT GO INTO THOSE SYSTEMS. AND
THIS SHOULD BE A MOUNTABLE TO
WHEN WE START LOOKING AT RAIL
WHEN WE START LOOKING AT
AVIATION WHEN WE START LOOKING
AT MARITIME APPLICATIONS, OR
EVEN OFF ROAD, HEAVY DUTY
EQUIPMENT AND MINING EQUIPMENT,
THIS COULD BE A BIG OPPORTUNITY
FOR HYDROGEN. SO IF I SWITCHED,
YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT
CALIFORNIA IS A LEADER AND LEADS
THE NATION WITHIN HYDROGEN. AND
THIS IS YOU KNOW SOME OF THE
LAWS AND IDEAS THAT HAVE BEEN
PASSED HERE BY BY THE, UM THE
LEGISLATURE AND ENACTED AND SO
THOSE REALLY ARE MOVING WHERE WE
NEED TO BE. AND SO WHAT DID WE
DO? WE CAME TOGETHER ABOUT TWO
YEARS AGO TO FORM ARCHES, THE
ALLIANCE FOR RENEWABLE CLEAN
HYDROGEN ENERGY SYSTEMS. AND
THIS IS A COMBINATION OF
INDUSTRY, HIGHER EDUCATION AND
THROUGH TO THE UC SYSTEM, WHICH
IS ALMOST UNPRECEDENTED AT THE
WHOLE èC SYSTEM, INCLUDING
LAWRENCE BERKELEY NATIONAL
LABORATORY, GETTING THE STATE
INVOLVED THROUGH THE GO BIZ AND
THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE GETTING
ORGANIZED LABOR AS A FOUNDING
MEMBER, AS WELL AS GETTING THE
COMMUNITIES AND SO YOU CAN SEE
HERE BOTH THE ARCHES KEY
DIFFERENTIATORS OF WHAT WE CAN
SEE IN TERMS OF REALLY MAKING AN
INTEGRATED SYSTEM. AS WELL AS
THE ARCHES PRINCIPLES OF BEING
STATEWIDE BEING CLEAN HYDROGEN
BEING VERY MUCH COMMUNITY
ENGAGED, EQUITY AND JUSTICE
CENTERED ALIGNED WITH THE STATE
INTERESTS. SOLUTION ORIENTED,
BEING ABLE TO DELIVER CERTAINTY
, MULTIDIMENSIONAL, CONNECTED
AND UNBIASED. SO WHAT DOES
ARCHES LOOK LIKE? IN TERMS OF
OUR DEAL? WE PROPOSAL THAT WE
SUBMITTED FOR THE HYDROGEN HUB
FUNDING WHERE YOU CAN SEE HERE
IS 39 PROJECTS THAT WE
IDENTIFIED THAT WE INTEGRATED
WITH EACH OTHER AND DID A
SYSTEMS ANALYSIS. WE HAVE
ANOTHER SET OF 31 PROJECTS THAT
JUST DUE TO A LACK OF FUNDING
WON'T GO FORWARD NECESSARILY
WITH THE DOUGH FUNDING. BUT ARE
VERY VIABLE PROJECTS AND COULD
BE EASILY INTEGRATED INTO THE
SYSTEM. BUT REALLY, WE'VE
ENGAGED IN MUCH LARGER COMMUNITY
OF 400 PLUS TÌM STAKEHOLDERS AND
ORGANIZATIONS TO REALLY START
TALKING AND BRINGING HYDROGEN AT
A STATE LEVEL AND STAY TOGETHER.
SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT A HUB,
WHAT DO WE MEAN? AND SO HERE? WE
HAVE DIFFERENT FEEDSTOCKS ONCE
AGAIN. HYDROGEN IS THAT ENERGY
CARRIERS AND SO WE'RE MAKING
HYDROGEN FROM RENEWABLE
ELECTRICITY FROM BIOGENIC
SOURCES. AND WE DO THAT, THROUGH
PRIMARILY ELECTROLYSIS THROUGH
THE BIOGENIC ONES WERE LOOKING
AT ALSO DOING A CEO TO CAPTURE
TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE MEETING
THOSE KIND OF CLEAN HYDROGEN. IN
FACT, IT IS A NEGATIVE EMISSIONS
IN TERMS OF SEO, TWO THAT WERE
PREDICTING FOR THE HUB PROJECTS
ONCE THEY'RE ALL UP AND RUNNING
BY 2030. WE TAKE THAT HYDROGEN
THAT'S PRODUCED. WE DISTRIBUTE
IT SO THIS COULD BE THROUGH
PIPELINES GASEOUS HYDROGEN
THROUGH PIPELINES, SOME
BUFFERING STORAGE. WE HAVEN'T
LOOKED AT THE LONG TERM STORAGE
YET AS WELL AS SOME LIQUID
HYDROGEN AND GASEOUS HYDROGEN
TRANSPORTATION TO THINGS LIKE
REFUELING STATIONS. AND THEN, OF
COURSE, THAT LEADS TO WHERE THE
DEMAND AND THE OFFTAKE IS, AND
WE'VE PRIORITIZED THREE OF THE
KEY SECTORS THAT WE THINK WOULD
BE FIRST TO REALLY GO AFTER. AND
SO THOSE SECTORS ARE POWER
GENERATION. AND SO YOU CAN THINK
HERE COMBUSTION TURBINES BUT
ALSO FEEL CELLS AND ALSO
DISTRIBUTED POWER. ALSO WAYS
THAT WE CAN GO AFTER TRIBAL
COMMUNITIES AND RURAL
COMMUNITIES AND HELP FIRM UP
THEIR MICROGRIDS HELPED FORM UP
THEIR POWER SUPPLIES AS NEEDED.
WE LOOK AT TRANSPORTATION,
MAINLY CLASS EIGHT TRUCKS, CLASS
SIX TRUCKS AS WELL AS THE FUEL
CELL ELECTRIC BUSSES AS I
MENTIONED, AND THEN, OF COURSE,
THE PORTS AND SO THAT IS STRANGE
TRUCKS AT THE PORTS, BUT EVEN
PRIMARY POWER REPORTS, EVEN
CARGO HANDLING EQUIPMENT AND
WAYS THAT WE CAN MEET THOSE
MANDATES OF DECARBONIZATION OF
THE PORTS, WHICH IS REQUIRED.
SHOWN HERE ARE KIND OF THE
OVERALL PRODUCTION OFFTAKE FOR
THE PROJECTS THAT ARE IN THAT
HUB PROPOSAL. WHERE WE'RE SAYING
THAT WE CAN SCALE FROM CLEAN
HYDROGEN TODAY OF ABOUT 7000
METRIC TONS PER YEAR, UP TO
190,000 METRIC TONS PER YEAR BY
WHEN THE HUB PART OF THE HUB IS
RUNNING ARE PART OF THE ARTIST
SYSTEM THAT IS, THE HUB IS
RUNNING. AND THEN ALL THE WAY UP
TO 17 MILLION. AS WE START
LOOKING AT 2045 AND REALLY
CARBONIZED, MEETING OUR MANDATES
AND USING HYDROGEN TO GO AFTER
THOSE HARD TO DIG CARBONIZED
SECTORS. AND THEN FINALLY, I
JUST WANT TO END AS WELL AND
SAYING THAT ARCHES AND REALLY
THE HYDROGEN IS NOT JUST PURELY
MARKET LIFTOFF, BUT THAT MARKET
LIFTOFF REALLY ENABLES
COMMUNITIES AND SO WHAT YOU CAN
SEE HERE IS A LOT OF THE LARGEST
SITES ARE GOING TO BE, UH,
ADVANTAGE NG THOSE DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES IN TERMS OF REDUCING
THEIR AIR POLLUTION. YOU CAN SEE
THE METRIC TONS OF NOX THAT
WE'RE PREDICTING THAT WILL
DECREASE. THAT PARTICULAR
MATTERS AS WELL AS WE GET THOSE
DIESELS OFF THE ROAD OUT OF THE
PORTS AS WE NEED TO FURTHERMORE
, YOU KNOW, WE'RE FOCUSED AND WE
SEE THAT OVER 200,000 CLEAN
CAREERS CAN COME OUT OF THIS
EFFORT. AND ACTUALLY WHEN WE DO
THE LIFE CYCLE ASSESSMENT AND
ADD IN HOW MUCH MONEY WE CAN SAY
THAT WE CAN SAVE FROM AVOIDED
HEALTH COSTS, IT'S $3 BILLION
PER YEAR. AND SO NOW THIS STARTS
TO, YOU KNOW, EVEN PAY FOR
ITSELF WHEN YOU WANT TO THINK OF
IT THAT WAY. AND NOT ONLY THAT,
BUT IT'S THESE BENEFITS ARE
GOING TO THESE COMMUNITIES THAT
REALLY NEED THEM. AND SO YOU CAN
SEE, WE HAVE $150 MILLION IN
DIRECT COMMUNITY BENEFITS AS
WELL AND NOT INCLUDING THE
VOIDED HEALTH COSTS, AS WELL AS
$230 MILLION THAT WE'RE SENDING
FIRST FOR WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT.
SO IN SUMMARY. I JUST WANT TO
EMPHASIZE THAT HYDROGEN IS
ENERGY CURE THAT CAN AND IS
PERHAPS ONE OF THE ONLY WAYS TO
REALLY DE CARBONIZED A LOT OF
THE HARD TO DE CARBONIZED
SECTORS. LAWRENCE BERKELEY
NATIONAL LABORATORY IS WORKING
VERY HARD ON IMPROVING TODAY'S
AS WELL AS INVENTING TOMORROW'S
TECHNOLOGIES FOR THE HYDROGEN
SPACE. WE'LL DO THIS THROUGH
SYSTEMATIC, FUNDAMENTAL TO
APPLIED R AND D AS WELL AS
PROVIDE TECHNICAL AND SCIENTIFIC
LEADERSHIP TO ARCHES AND OTHER
HYDROGEN TYPE ORGANIZATIONS. AND
SO SUPPORT. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING
FOR IS REALLY SUPPORTING ARCHES
AND REALLY SUPPORTING THAT
SYSTEM APPROACH. SO AS WE START
TO GO ALONG THIS PATH OF A
NASCENT HYDROGEN SYSTEM AND
REALLY START TO SCALE IT, IT'S
THE SYSTEM APPROACH. I THINK
THAT'S GOING TO BE A
DIFFERENTIATOR. IT'S GOING TO
ALLOW THE MARKET LIFT OFF IS
GOING TO ALLOW THE DEEP
POLLUTION AND THE COMMUNITY
BENEFITS. WE HAVE WORKING GROUPS
AS WELL THAT YOU KNOW, WE
ENJOYING YOU TO ATTEND, AS WELL
AS FIND THE FINDINGS FROM THAT
THAT WILL BE PUBLICIZING,
INCLUDING RECOMMENDATIONS ACROSS
THE SPECTRUM OF DIFFERENT
CONCEPTS. CONTINUED INVESTMENT
IN MATCHING OF THE HYDROGEN R
AND D THAT COMES OUT OF G O E IS
ALWAYS A KEY CONCERN. WHAT WE
KNOW IS AS I MENTIONED,
INNOVATION IS STILL REQUIRED IS
NOT JUST A MATTER OF SCALING
SCALING WILL GET US SOME FAR.
BUT REALLY, WE NEED TO DO
INNOVATION AS WELL AT THE SAME
TIME. WE WANT TO OVERCOME
PERMITTING AND OPERATING EXPENSE
CHALLENGES AND MAKING SURE THAT
WE DON'T LOSE THAT COMMUNITY
ENGAGEMENT. AND REALLY HAVE AN
HONEST CONVERSATION OF HOW
HYDROGEN CAN DECARBONIZATION
TIPPLE SECTORS AND HOW CAN
REALLY WORK SYNERGISTICALLY WITH
DIRECT ELECTRIFICATION AND
BATTERIES. THIS IS NOT AN EITHER
, OR IT'S AN ANT ISSUE THAT WE
WANT GOING FORWARD FOR THE
BETTERMENT OF ALL CALIFORNIANS.
AND WITH THAT, I THANK YOU FOR
YOUR TIME. THANK YOU, DR WEBBER,
LET ME GO AHEAD. AND NOW TURN IT
OVER TO COMMITTEE MEMBERS. AND
WELCOME TO THOSE WHO JUST CAME
IN TO START WITH YOU, YOU KNOW?
THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UM DR
WEBBER. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE
THIS MORNING. THAT'S ALL I GOT
TO SAY IS, UM AH, YOU SPOKE TO
EVERYTHING THAT I THINK IS
IMPORTANT FOR THIS LEGISLATURE
TO KNOW WHICH IS THAT WE HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY. WE NOW HAVE FUNDING
FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN
ORDER TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN, BUT
I'M DISAPPOINTED AND I HAVE A
MILLION QUESTIONS. BUT I'M GOING
TO BE REALLY BRIEF. MY MAJOR
ISSUE IS THAT WHEN WE DID OUR
INFRASTRUCTURE PACKAGE DURING
THE BUDGET, THERE WAS MUCH
DEBATE ABOUT HYDROGEN. AND UM, I
WAS ONE OF THE PROPONENTS OF
MAKING SURE THAT WE HAD THE
BROADEST LANGUAGE POSSIBLE. AND
THAT WE INCLUDE HYDROGEN FOR AN
EXPEDITED PERMITTING PROCESS AND
WE COULDN'T GET IT DONE. AND
PART OF THE REASON IS THE
DEFINITION OF HYDROGEN AND YOU
SPOKE ABOUT MOVING AWAY FROM THE
COLORS AND LET ME JUST SAY IF WE
COULD GET A COPY OF YOUR YOUR
PRESENTATION, THAT WOULD BE
EXCELLENT. UM I WAS STRAINING TO
READ SO FAR. BUT BUT BUT CAN YOU
ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF MOVING AWAY
FROM THE COLORS TO MOVING
TOWARDS LANGUAGE? AND BECAUSE
LANGUAGE MATTERS, UM, IN TERMS
OF A OF A HYDROGEN IF WE CAN GO
BACK AND FIX THAT, UM I'M REALLY
PROUD OF CALIFORNIA FOR
SUCCESSFULLY, UM, BEING GRANTED
THREE HYDROGEN HUBS, AND IT'S MY
BELIEF THAT UM, THAT THOSE HUBS
ARE GOING TO MAKE CRITICAL
INVESTMENTS IN THE PART OF THE
ECONOMY OR PART OF THE
COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN
STRUGGLING, THE DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING
WITH GOOD JOBS, UM POLLUTED AIR
AND, UM, AND LACK OF RESOURCES.
AND SO HYDROGEN NEEDS TO BE PART
OF. I THINK PART OF OUR
INFRASTRUCTURE IT COULD YOU
PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT WHAT KIND OF
LANGUAGE YOU'D LIKE TO SEE IN
HYDROGEN LANGUAGE IF WE CAN COME
BACK AND REVISIT THAT YES. SO,
AS I MENTIONED, I MEAN COLORS
START TO BECOME VERY COMPLICATED
IN TERMS OF A LOT OF PEOPLE
DEFINE IT DIFFERENTLY, LAYS ITS
A WHOLE RAINBOW AND A WHOLE
PRISM OF COLORS NOWADAYS, WHAT
WE LIKE, IS REALLY THE PROBLEM.
THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT
PEOPLE GRAB ON A COLOR. AND THEN
THEY KNOW IT EXCLUDES MOST OF
THE WORK THAT'S BEING DONE. AND
SO THAT'S THAT'S THE REASON THAT
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S
BROAD ENOUGH SO THAT WE'RE WE
CAN USE INNOVATION AND AS WE
DEVELOP STRATEGIES WERE THOSE
STRATEGIES ARE NOT FORECLOSED
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THE RIGHT
COLOR. EXACTLY AND I THINK IF
YOU LOOK AT AND WHAT WE'VE
CENTERED AROUND, IS LOOKING AT
CARBON EMISSIONS. AND DOING A
LIFE CYCLE ASSESSMENT, SO
UNDERSTANDING ALL THE INPUTS
INTO WHAT GOES INTO MAKING THE
HYDROGEN AND THEN BEING ABLE TO
ASSESS THAT, IN TERMS OF HOW
MUCH CARBON WAS ACTUALLY
GENERATED DURING ALL THOSE
PROCESSES. UM AND SO THAT COULD
BE EVERYTHING FROM, YOU KNOW,
JUST THE PRIMARY INPUTS OF
ELECTRICITY AND WATER, BUT ALSO
THINGS AROUND OTHER EMISSIONS
SAID THAT MIGHT HAVE ANCILLARY
EMISSIONS DEPENDING ON WHERE
YOU'RE GETTING YOUR FEEDSTOCKS
WHERE YOU'RE MOVING. FOR EXAMPLE
, IF YOU'RE MOVING, BIOLOGIC
SOURCE. HOW ARE YOU MOVING THAT?
ARE YOU USING FUEL CELL TRUCKS
VERSUS USING DIESEL TRUCKS,
RIGHT AND ACCOUNTING FOR ALL
THOSE EMISSIONS, AND I THINK
ONCE YOU DO THAT, THAT KIND OF
SUMS IT UP AS JUST A NICE CARBON
EMISSIONS VALUE THAT THAT YOU
CAN USE AND COMPARE. AND THEN WE
CAN DEFINE KIND OF WHAT CLEAN
EMISSIONS IS WHETHER WE WANT TO
USE SOMETHING LIKE D O E OF, YOU
KNOW, 4 KG OF CO TWO PER PER
KILOGRAM OF HYDROGEN OR SOME
OTHER METRIC, BUT AT LEAST THAT
THAT KIND OF GETS AWAY FROM THE
COLOR SPECTRUM. UM ONCE WE'RE
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT, AND
THEN IS THERE AGREEMENT IN THE
SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY ABOUT HOW
YOU WOULD DO THAT ANALYSIS, SO
THAT AS WE START LOOKING AT IT,
WE ARE NOT THROWN INTO A
SOPHISTICATED ARGUMENT THAT NONE
OF US REALLY UNDERSTAND. YEAH,
SO THERE'S STANDARD. THERE'S
THINGS LIKE THE GREAT MODEL FROM
ARGON NATIONAL LABORATORY.
THERE'S WORK THAT ENROLL DOES
THERE'S WORK THAT LAWRENCE
BERKELEY LAB DOES AS WELL THAT
ARE KIND OF STANDARD, ELSIE A
PROCEDURES TO HOW WE ACCOUNT AND
DO KIND OF THE CARBON ACCOUNTING
FOR THESE SYSTEMS. AND THEN A
REAL PRACTICAL QUESTION IS UM MY
UNDERSTANDING IS THAT DIESEL
ENGINES CAN HANDLE THE HYDROGEN
, UM, PRODUCTS THAT ARE BEING
PRODUCED TODAY, UM AND THAT THE
AIR BOARD HAS DETERMINED THAT
BECAUSE WE'VE MADE THE
COMMITMENT TO ELECTRIFICATION
THAT HYDROGEN WILL NOT SUFFICE.
IS THERE IS THERE SOME
PRACTICAL? I MEAN, IS THAT TRUE?
WELL THE CAR PART I DON'T IT. IS
IT TRUE THAT DIESEL ENGINES CAN
TAKE HYDROGEN BECAUSE I KNOW
IT'S BEING PRODUCED FROM
METHANE. FROM THE DAIRY
DIGESTERS. UM AND SO I'M I'M I'M
WONDERING IF THERE'S SOME CHANGE
THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SOME
PRACTICALLY SPEAKING SO THAT
WE'RE LOOKING AT EMISSIONS.
REDUCTIONS OR ELIMINATIONS, AS
OPPOSED TO PICKING WINNERS AND
LOSERS ON ELECTRIFICATION OVER
HYDROGEN. YES SO I MEAN, IT'S A
GOOD QUESTION, SO THEY HAVE TO
BE RETROFITTED AND, YOU KNOW
SIMILAR THAT YOU CAN'T JUST TAKE
A DIESEL ENGINE PUT GASOLINE IN.
YOU CAN'T JUST PUT HYDROGEN IN
ITS INTERNAL COMBUSTION AND YOU
CAN INTERNALLY COMBUST HYDROGEN
, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE KIND
OF A SIMPLE REPLACEMENT OF JUST
CHANGING THE FUEL. THERE'S ALSO
OTHER ISSUES, PERHAPS WITH SOME
OF THAT THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS
HYDROGEN WELCOME BUST AT A
HIGHER TEMPERATURE, AND SO THERE
COULD BE MORE NOX EMISSIONS. UM
THESE ARE ADDRESSABLE, BUT IT IS
SOMETHING THAT THAT WE HAVE TO
LOOK AT. PRIMARILY WHAT WE FOCUS
ON, ESPECIALLY AT THE LABORATORY
IS LOOKING AT FUEL CELLS AND
BECAUSE TYPICALLY, THEY WILL
HAVE HIGHER EFFICIENCIES THAN
HYDROGEN COMBUSTION ENGINES.
THERE'LL BE A LITTLE BIT MORE
EXPENSIVE IN TERMS OF THE
CAPITAL COST, BUT BECAUSE OF THE
EFFICIENCY AND THE FACT THAT
WE'RE DRIVING THESE SO LONG, THE
OPERATING COSTS AND REALLY, THE
LEVEL IS COST US AND THE TOTAL
COST OF OWNERSHIP STARTS TO
BECOME MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. AND
WE BELIEVE THE EFFICIENCIES AND
FUEL CELLS AND THOSE KIND OF
APPLICATIONS WILL WIN OUT OVER
KIND OF THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION.
BUT IT IS IT IS A PATHWAY THAT
WE CAN LOOK AT. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THIS
HAS BEEN THE OTHER MEMBERS
QUESTIONS. S¼ YES. SENATOR.
THANK YOU. CHAIR. UM MY
COLLEAGUE. REFERENCE UH, THREE
HYDROGEN HUBS. THAT'S WHAT WE'VE
APPLIED FOR, BUT HE HAS NOT HAS
NOT APPROVED OR WE'VE APPLIED
FOR A SINGLE HYDROGEN HAD BUT
WOULD HAVE MULTIPLE LOCATIONS IN
THE STATE. BUT DO WE HAS NOT
MADE THEIR DECISIONS AROUND
THOSE GRANTS YET? CORRECT THAT
IS CORRECT DEAL. HE HAS NOT MADE
ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS ABOUT THE
GRANTS WERE STILL IN KIND OF THE
PROPOSAL PROCESS THERE. RIGHT UM
, SO OBVIOUSLY THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA IS VERY COMMITTED TO
THIS AND WE MADE SURE AND LAST
YEAR IN THE BUDGET TO, UH
PROVIDE FUNDING TO BE ABLE TO
APPLY AND BE COMPETITIVE. UM.
AND I ALSO APPRECIATE MY
COLLEAGUE'S REQUESTING OF YOUR
AH, THE PRESENTATION YOU MADE
BECAUSE IT WAS HARD TO SEE FROM
HERE. UM UH, UH, YOU DISCUSSED
THE VARIETY OF THINGS THAT
HYDROGEN COULD SERVE THE D THE
DIFFICULT TO DE CARBONIZED
SECTORS WHICH DO YOU THINK ARE
THE MOST READY RIGHT NOW? SURE
SO I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW WHEN WE
START LOOKING AT IT, UM THE KEY
THING ABOUT HYDROGEN IS GOING TO
BE. I THINK TRANSPORTATION IS
ONE OF THEM. ESPECIALLY GOING
AFTER FLEETS BECAUSE THAT ALLOWS
US TO PRECISELY AND
STRATEGICALLY PLACED REFUELING
STATIONS. WE HAVE TO OBVIOUSLY
GET THE REFUELING STATION THERE.
WE HAVE TO GET THE TRUCKS THERE.
WE ALSO HAVE TO GET THE
HYDROGEN. THEY'RE ALL THE SAME
TIME. AND THAT KIND OF GOES TO
THAT SYSTEM ANALYSIS THAT WE'RE
THAT WE'RE USING IN ARCHES. BUT
I THINK THE TRANSPORTATION IS
KIND OF THE EARLIER ONE. THE
PORTS AS WELL WHEN WE LOOK AT
THAT, AND REPLACING AND
RETROFITTING CARGO HANDLING
EQUIPMENT ONCE AGAIN, IT'S KIND
OF SINGLE SITES. AND THEN THERE
ARE DEFINITELY THINGS IN THE
POWER SECTOR AS WELL AS SOME
TURBANS TODAY CAN HANDLE LARGE
AMOUNTS OF HYDROGEN, NOT 100%
BUT WHAT WE SEE IS WHEN WE START
DOING THE RETROFITS IN KIND OF
THAT 2028 2030 TIME FRAME. WE
EXPECT THOSE TURBANS TO BE AT
100% HYDROGEN CAPACITY AND
THINGS LIKE POWER WILL GIVE
STRONG DEMAND SIGNALS AS WELL.
AND THAT'S ALWAYS KIND OF KEY.
SO THAT'S WHERE THE THOSE THREE
SECTORS OR WHAT WE FOCUSED ON IN
ARCHES WHERE WE CAN BELIEVE BY
2030. WE CAN GET TO A MARKET
THAT'S GENERATING AND CONSUMING
500 TONS PER DAY OF HYDROGEN. UM
AND WHAT FEEDSTOCK RIGHT NOW IN
CALIFORNIA DO WE FEEL AS UM THE
MOST APT FOR PRODUCING THE
HYDROGEN IN AS YOU DEFINED CLEAN
HYDROGEN? SO THERE'S DEFINITELY
AND ONCE AGAIN IF YOU LOOK AT
KIND OF WHAT'S THE ARCHES
PORTFOLIO, ELECTROLYSIS USING
RENEWABLES TO FEED IT WITH SOME
GRID TO INCREASE CAPACITY
FACTORS AS WELL AS SOME BIOGENIC
WASTE, BUT LOOKING AT THE KIND
OF WOODY BIOMASS, PERHAPS THINGS
COMING OFF OF WASTEWATER,
MUNICIPAL WASTE AS WELL, SINCE
WE HAVE MANDATES TO KIND OF
RECYCLE AND MINIMIZE THOSE THOSE
WOULD BE KIND OF THE KEY WANTS
TO MOVE FORWARD WITH, I WOULD
SAY ELECTROLYSIS IS A KNOWN
TECHNOLOGY. IT'S STILL TOO
EXPENSIVE, BUT WE EXPECT THOSE
COSTS TO COME DOWN. THE OTHER
ONES ARE YOU KNOW THEY'RE NOT
NECESSARILY AS WELL ESTABLISHED
, BUT THEY'RE NOT THAT FAR OFF,
EITHER. SO WE EXPECT WITHIN THE
TIMEFRAME ALL OF THOSE TO BE
ABLE TO COME ONLINE. FINAL
QUESTION IS UM, WELL, MY
COLLEAGUE REFERRED TO THAT. WE,
UH NOT YET LANDED ON A
DEFINITION FOR STATEWIDE FOR YOU
KNOW WHAT THE HYDROGEN THAT
WE'RE GONNA PRIORITIZE ER OR
WHATEVER, BUT WE DO HAVE A
DEFINITION IN STATUTE FOR THE
ELECTROLYSIS, ELECTROLYTIC
HYDROGEN. HAVE YOU REVIEWED?
THAT IS THERE? UH IS THAT A
DEFINITION THAT WORKS, FOR
EXAMPLE FOR WHAT ARCHES IS
TRYING TO PURSUE? OR IS THERE
SOME ADJUSTMENTS THAT MIGHT NEED
ME TO BE MADE? SO I WOULD SAY I
HAVEN'T REVIEWED IT IN PROBABLY
THE DETAIL THAT THAT I SHOULD,
BUT AT LEAST UPON FIRST REVIEW,
IT LOOKED FINE. YES SENATOR
HELEN. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO
MUCH VERY INTERESTING
PRESENTATION. AND, UM, ALL YOUR
OTHER WORK THAT WENT BEHIND IT.
UM I'D LOVE TO JUST GET IT
BETTER SENSE OF THIS IS ONE OF
THE CONTINUAL CONCERNS YOU HERE.
OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF TALK ABOUT
SOURCING AND THE COLORS. BUT BUT
THIS WHOLE QUESTION OF LEAKAGE.
AND, UM. YOU KNOW HOW SO? SO I
WANT TO GET INTO HOW IT'S BEING
MONITORED. UM WHAT TECHNOLOGY
ADVANCES MIGHT BE REQUIRED TO
MORE RELIABLY DETECT LEAKS AND
THEN TALK ABOUT WHAT DESIGN
CHALLENGES? HOW HOW DO WE CREATE
THE NEXT GENERATION OF PAPER,
YOU KNOW, PIPELINES STORAGE
INFRASTRUCTURE THAT REALLY DOES
ULTIMATELY. MINUTES. MY YOU
KNOW, MINIMIZE DAMAGE TO
MATERIALS AND HYDROGEN LEAKAGE
AND KIND OF GET WHATEVER
INSIGHTS YOU HAVE AS TO WHAT
NEEDS TO HAPPEN. IN THAT SPACE,
BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY WE'RE DOING
THIS TO MEET IMPORTANT CLIMATE
GOALS, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO BE
CONTRIBUTING TO CLIMATE PROBLEMS
AS WE DO IT SO LOVE YOUR
THOUGHTS? NO DEFINITELY. I AGREE
. I MEAN, I WOULD START BY
SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE FOR DECADES
HAVE USED HYDROGEN. WE'VE
HYDROGEN PIPELINES. AND SO WE
KNOW HOW TO DO THAT SAFELY. WE
KNOW HOW TO MOVE THAT. I THINK
LORRAINE FROM AIR PRODUCTS AND
CAN TOUCH ON THAT LATER TODAY,
TOO. DURING THIS SINCE THEY HAVE
BEEN DOING THIS FOR DECADES. SO
WE KNOW HOW TO KIND OF MONITOR
AND UNDERSTAND THE LEAKAGE RATES
WE HAVE ACROSS OUR SISTER
LABORATORIES, ESPECIALLY THE
NATIONAL RENEWABLE ENERGY
LABORATORY, HAVE R AND D THAT
GOES INTO BETTER WAYS TO MONITOR
AND DO LEAK DETECTION AS WELL.
UM AND SO THAT IS SOMETHING THAT
WE HAVE CONTROLLED. BUT IT IS
SOMETHING THAT WILL DEFINITELY
ARE COGNIZANT OF AND WILL HAVE
TO IMPLEMENT FOR ANY PIPELINES.
I THINK THE KEY THING IS TO
REALLY FABRICATE AND USE
DEDICATED HYDROGEN PIPELINES. UM
I THINK WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL
ABOUT RETROFITS. I THINK THERE
IS POSSIBILITIES TO DO THAT, BUT
PROBABLY WITH CERTAIN CAPACITY
LIMITS. UM, AND SO THERE'S JUST
A LITTLE BIT MORE R AND D AND
SOME KIND OF DEMOS THAT NEED TO
BE DONE WHERE WE CLOSELY MONITOR
THOSE TO UNDERSTAND IF THEY'RE
VIABLE OR NOT. SINCE THAT WOULD
BE A MORE INEXPENSIVE OPTION,
BUT REALLY DOING DEDICATED
HYDROGEN PIPELINES. I THINK THAT
IS SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW HOW TO
DO, AND THAT IS SOMETHING WHERE
WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
MONITORING WITHIN ARCHES ITSELF.
WE HAVE A LARGE MONITORING
EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE
NOT CAUSING ANY MORE HARM THAN
THAN THE GOOD THAT WE'RE DOING.
UM OKAY. I MEAN, I GUESS. WHAT
WELL, WHAT? WHAT I MEAN ARE
THERE ARE THERE SOME ADVANCED
LIKE SORT OF TECHNOLOGY ADVANCES
THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF THAT
THEY'RE GOING TO HELP MAKE THAT
MONITORING PROCESS MORE
EFFECTIVE. WE'RE YEAH. I MEAN,
THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS. I MEAN,
SO ONE IS THE DETECTION ITSELF
AND COMING OUT WITH OTHER WAYS,
ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW THINGS,
WHETHER IT'S SENSORS OR WHETHER
IT'S DRONE BASED ANALYSIS,
DEPENDING HOW BARRY THE
PIPELINES ARE BEING ABLE TO
DETECT THE LEAKAGE EVENTS, UM,
BUT THEN THERE'S ALSO NEW
CODEINE THAT ARE BEING LOOKED AT
FOR THINGS LIKE PIPELINES TO
MAKE SURE THAT WE DECREASE THE
AMOUNT OF HYDROGEN THAT'S GOING
TO GO IN. MAKE SURE THAT WE KEEP
THE HYDROGEN AWAY FROM IN
BREITLING. ANY KIND OF PIPELINES
THAT ARE METALLIC. UM AND SO
THERE ARE ALWAYS CONTINUOUS
ADVANCES THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT.
UM I WOULD SAY, AT LEAST FROM
OUR LABORATORY PERSPECTIVE. IT'S
NOT NECESSARILY SOMETHING THAT
WE FOCUS ON AS MUCH WE CONSIDER
IT, UM, SOMEWHAT OF A NOT AS
CONCERNING PROBLEM. FOR US IN
TERMS OF KIND OF BRINGING DOWN
THE COSTS AND HAVING MARKET
LIFTOFF, SINCE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
MOVING HYDROGEN AND THOUSANDS OF
MILES OF PIPELINES ACROSS THE
WORLD FOR A LONG TIME WITHOUT
HAVING SUBSTANTIAL LEAKAGES,
BECAUSE IF THEY DID, RIGHT, THAT
JUST REALLY HURTS THE COST AND
THE EFFICIENCY OF THOSE
PROCESSES AS WELL. AND YOU KNOW
, THERE'S A LETTER THAT, UM. YOU
KNOW, INVOLVED A NUMBER OF STATE
LEGISLATORS FROM ALL THE
COUNTRIES THAT WERE ASKING FOR
SOME REQUIREMENTS FOR RENEWABLE
ENERGY USED TO ENSURE EFFECTIVE
GHG EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS. AND
MAYBE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T
HAVE A GOOD ANSWER FOR THIS MAY
BE ONE OF THE FUTURE PANELS CAN
CAN ANSWER, BUT UM SO THE FOCUS
IN THE LETTER THEY WERE TALKING.
ABOUT ADDITION, AL ITTY. THEY
WERE TALKING ABOUT DELIVER
ABILITY, HOURLY MATCHING OF
RENEWABLE ENERGY USED AND DO YOU
HAVE ANY INSIGHT AS TO THE
EXTENT TO WHICH HYDROGEN
PRODUCTION FACILITIES ARE READY
TO MEET THOSE THOSE KINDS OF
PROPOSED REQUIREMENTS? THIS IS A
LETTER THAT CAME OUT AND IN
CONNECTION TO THE PRODUCTION TAX
CREDITS UNDER THE I R. A SURE IF
YOU WANT TO DEFER TO ANOTHER
PANELIST. THAT'S FINE. I MEAN, I
CAN DEFER TO THE OTHER PANELS. I
MEAN, I WOULD SAY THAT THERE'S A
FEW THINGS TO DO. IT'S ONE AS A
NASCENT TECHNOLOGY THAT THAT'S
COMING OUT AND BEING PRODUCED.
WE DON'T WANT TO OVERLY
CONSTRAIN WHAT THOSE MEAN. AND
SO PUTTING THINGS LIKE I REALLY
MATCHING PUTTING THINGS LIKE
CONDITIONALITY ARE GOING TO BE
VERY HARD FOR THE OVERALL
SECTOR. WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT THOSE KIND OF THINGS
ARE APPLIED TO ALL RENEWABLE
TECHNOLOGIES, NOT NECESSARILY
SINGLING OUT HYDROGEN AND SO
THAT CAN GO FOR DIRECT
ELECTRIFICATION THAT CAN GO FOR
ENERGY STORAGE AND BATTERY
FACILITIES AS WELL, WHICH SO FAR
HAVE NOT HAD THOSE EXTRA
REQUIREMENTS. AND SO WE HAVE
STRONG CONCERNS OF WHAT THAT
WOULD ACTUALLY DO IF WE START,
ADDING, IN ADDITION, ALLEY WHEN
WE START OUT IN AN HOURLY TIME
MATCHING UM TO THE OVERALL
SYSTEM. WE BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE
KIND OF A ROBUST ANALYSIS METHOD
TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU KNOW,
WITHOUT THOSE REQUIREMENTS WERE
STILL REPORTING THE BEST KIND OF
02 EMISSIONS THAT WE CAN REPORT.
AND SO WE DON'T SEE WHY WE WOULD
NEED TO KIND OF CONSTRAIN IT ANY
FURTHER THAN THAT. YEAH, I CAN
SEE HOW DOES YOUR PERSPECTIVE.
APPRECIATE IT? THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE?
OKAY WELL, DOCTOR ARE VERY THANK
YOU AND SOME OF THE THINGS THAT
YOU HAD MENTIONED HEALTH COSTS.
VERSUS FUEL COSTS. AND THIS IS
WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT. WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HEALTH WITH OUR
CALIFORNIA FREEWAY SYSTEMS, THE
COMMUNITIES THAT SURROUND THEM.
THE NEED TO PROTECT THESE
CHILDREN THAT ARE IN THE
PLAYGROUNDS AND SO ON. GIVE US
AN IDEA IF YOU WOULD THE FUTURE
OF THE FUEL COST AND THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF HYDROGEN
OVERSTATING THE NEXT 5 10 YEARS
? SURE SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE
ARCHES, TIMELINE, UM WE'RE
SAYING THAT THE HUB WILL BE UP
AND RUNNING IN 2030. SO WHEN WE
DO THAT, WE GET THOSE HEALTH
BENEFITS. WE BELIEVE THAT, YOU
KNOW, TO PUT IT KIND OF A LITTLE
GLIBLY. WE CAN GET TO PARODY
WITH DIESEL BUT WITH NEGATIVE
CARBON EMISSIONS. WITHIN THAT
TIMEFRAME IN TERMS OF COST OF
HYDROGEN. VERY GOOD. THERE ARE
NO OTHER QUESTIONS. WE'LL GO
AHEAD AND THANK YOU, DR WEBBER,
AND WE'LL BRING UP OUR NEXT
PANELISTS. IF WE CAN ASK BRIAN
GOLDSTEIN. COME ON UP. OKAY? NOW
LEGEND NEXT WILL BE WILL BE
HEARING FROM BRYANT GOLDSTEIN,
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR WITH ENERGY
INDEPENDENCE NOW. BRIAN
GOLDSTEIN HAS A PROFESSIONAL
EXPERIENCE IN THE ALTERNATIVE
FUELS RENEWABLE ENERGY, ENERGY
EFFICIENCY, TRANSPORTATION
TECHNOLOGIES AND FINANCIAL
SERVICES SECTOR HAS SERVED AS
CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER OF
HYDROGEN TRANSPORTATION
TECHNOLOGY COMPANY WHERE HE
FOCUSED ON BOTH PUBLIC AND
PRIVATE FINANCING INITIATIVES.
INFRASTRUCTURE ACQUISITION,
AUTOMOTIVE TECHNOLOGY AND
DEVELOPMENT AND FLEET ADAPTATION
OF HYDROGEN TECHNOLOGY. MR
GOLDSTEIN GRADUATED WITH B S AND
INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS FROM
LEEDS SCHOOL OF BUSINESS AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO AND
EARNED HIS M B A. AT PEPPERDINE.
AH SCHOOL OF BUSINESS
MANAGEMENT. WELCOME, MR
GOLDSTEIN. THANK YOU VERY MUCH
PLEASURE TO BE HERE SO LITTLE
BIT OF A HARD ACT TO FOLLOW WITH
ADAM AND YOU KNOW, GIVEN THE
TIME CONSTRAINTS, I THOUGHT WE
MIGHT HAVE A LITTLE BETTER
ACCESS TO, YOU KNOW, TV SCREEN
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT FOR THE
PRESENTATION, SO I THINK I'M
GOING TO PIVOT A LITTLE BIT. GO
BRUTE THROUGH BRIEFLY SOME OF
THE TALKING POINTS THAT I HAVE
IN MY PRESENTATION, MOSTLY ABOUT
MY BACKGROUND AND THE FOCUS OF
THE ORGANIZATION THAT I RUN.
EXCUSE ME. OKAY? SOME OF OUR
RECOMMENDATIONS. BUT CONSIDERING
THE LEVEL AND QUALITY OF THE
QUESTIONS THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS
BEEN, YOU KNOW, POSING UP UNTIL
NOW, I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO SAVE
SOME TIME FOR Q AND A AFTERWARDS
SO I'LL GO THROUGH QUICKLY. WHAT
WE DO WHY I'M HERE WHAT OUR
RECOMMENDATIONS ARE AND THEN
LET'S DIVE INTO THE NITTY
GRITTY. YOU GOT IT. GO AHEAD.
HMM.
I'M OUT THERE TALKING ABOUT.
PRESENTATION HERE. I CAN JUST GO
AHEAD AND GET STARTED WITH WITH
SOME OF THE INTROS. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR THE FOR THE
INTRODUCTION AGAIN. MY NAME IS
BRIAN GOLDSTEIN, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF ENERGY INDEPENDENCE
NOW, WHICH IS ENVIRONMENTAL
NONPROFIT THAT THAT JUST FOCUSES
ON HYDROGEN. WELCOME BACK TO
THAT IN JUST A COUPLE OF MINUTES
. I'VE BEEN WORKING
PROFESSIONALLY SOLELY FOCUSING
ON THE HYDROGEN SPACE MORE OR
LESS FOR 18 YEARS. I'VE BEEN
LEADING ENERGY INDEPENDENCE NOW
FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS ON THE
BOARD OF THE CALIFORNIA HYDROGEN
BUSINESS COUNCIL. I'M ON THE
BOARD OF THE HYDROGEN FUEL CELL
PARTNERSHIP, WHICH WAS THE
CALIFORNIA HYDROGEN FUEL CELL
PARTNERSHIP UP UNTIL RECENTLY,
AND I'VE HAD THE DISTINCT
PLEASURE TO RUN, AN ORGANIZATION
FOUNDED BY FORMER EPA SECRETARY
TERRY TAMMINEN, WHO'S BECOME MY
MENTOR, GOOD FRIEND AND PARTNER
IN THESE ENDEAVORS, AND SO LET
ME TELL YOU JUST A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THE I N HERE. SO IAN IS
THE ONLY ENVIRONMENTAL NONPROFIT
THAT JUST FOCUSES ON HYDROGEN IN
THE CONTEXT OF COMBATING CLIMATE
CHANGE AND IMPROVING AIR QUALITY
. INITIALLY WE'VE BEEN AROUND
FOR 20 TO 25 YEARS WE HAVE
OFFICIALLY HAD R C THREE STATUS
FOR 20 YEARS. WE CELEBRATED THAT
ANNIVERSARY THIS YEAR. TERRY
FOUNDED US UNDER ENVIRONMENT NOW
A LITTLE BIT EARLIER THAN THAT,
SO ROUGHLY WE'RE ABOUT 23 YEARS
OLD HERE AT E. I N WHICH IS, YOU
KNOW A LITTLE BIT OLDER THAN THE
OVERALL LIKE HYDROGEN MOVEMENT
FOR MOBILITY HERE IN THE STATE.
SO UM, TERRY FOUNDED E I N
REALLY TO INITIALLY TAKE A LOOK
AT HOW TO CLEAN UP MOBILITY IN
CALIFORNIA AND TRAVELED AROUND
THE WORLD LOOKED AT DIFFERENT
TECHNOLOGIES LOOKED AT BATTERY
TECHNOLOGY AND HYDROGEN
TECHNOLOGY. AND ULTIMATELY
REALIZED, I THINK WAS A VERY
IMPORTANT THING, ESPECIALLY AT
THE TIME HERE BEING THE LATE
NINETIES THAT THAT THERE IS NO
SILVER BULLET. THERE'S NO ONE
TECHNOLOGY THAT WE CAN RELY ON.
NOR IS THERE ONE TECHNOLOGY THAT
WE SHOULD CHOOSE IS THE
PROVERBIAL WINNER HERE THAT
WOULD ALLOW US TO DE CARBONIZED
MOBILITY OR THE OTHER
APPLICATIONS WE'RE ABOUT TO TALK
ABOUT ACROSS THE STATE, MUCH
LESS ACROSS THE WORLD.
ULTIMATELY IT IT HAS TO BE A
PORTFOLIO APPROACH. AND I THINK
YOU'LL HEAR YOU KNOW SOME OF MY
COLLEAGUES KIND OF ECHO THAT
SENTIMENT TODAY. UM YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE THIS THIS TENDENCY HERE IN
THE US TO REALLY WANT TO PICK A
WINNER AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT
WE TALKED ABOUT SO OFTEN HERE IN
SACRAMENTO THAT HEY, IT'S NOT
OUR JOB TO PICK A WINNER. LET'S
LET THE MARKET PICK A WINNER.
LET'S SET SET THE TABLE FOR
PRIVATE INDUSTRY TO COME OUT TO
COMPETE TO INNOVATE AND TO
DELIVER ON GOALS THAT THAT WE
EFFECTIVELY SET AS THE
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY, THE
POLICY COMMUNITY AND THE
REGULATORY COMMUNITY, AND THOSE
GOALS ARE TO DE CARBONIZED
CARBONIZED, CALIFORNIA AND TO DE
CARBONIZED THE REST OF THE WORLD
AND HOW WE GO ABOUT DOING THAT.
I THINK AS LONG AS WE CAN LAY
THE CORRECT PARAMETERS. WE HAVE
A VERY GOOD ENTREPRENEURIAL
SPIRIT IN THIS COUNTRY AND
BEYOND THAT, I THINK IS VERY
MUCH UP TO THE TASK TO DELIVER
THE TECHNOLOGY AND TO DELIVER
THE SUPPORT INFRASTRUCTURE THAT
WE NEED FOR THE TECHNOLOGY
ACROSS THE BOARD TO ACCOMPLISH
THAT GOAL, WHETHER IT'S FUEL
CELLS OR BATTERIES OR OR
ANYTHING IN BETWEEN. SO THAT'S
ESSENTIALLY BEEN OUR FOCUS AT
EDDIE IN FOR THE 1ST 15 YEARS.
WE FOCUS PRIMARILY ON MOBILITY.
WE DEVELOPED THE CALIFORNIA
HYDROGEN HIGHWAY BLUEPRINT FOR
THEN GOVERNOR SCHWARZENEGGER,
ALONG WITH THE CALIFORNIA AIR
RESOURCE BOARD. I THINK I HAVE
SOME NOW THIS IS MOVING FASTER
THAN I AM. UM. WE CO AUTHORED SB
15 05, REQUIRING A 33.3%
RENEWABLE MIX IN HYDROGEN SOLD
FOR MOBILITY. UM BUT THE THING
THAT I'M PARTICULARLY PROUD
ABOUT WITH OUR WORK ON SP 15 05
AND THE ASSURANCE THAT WILL HAVE
RENEWABLE CONTENT AND HYDROGEN
HERE IN CALIFORNIA IS THAT WE
PASSED THAT BILL. UM SIX YEARS
BEFORE A CONSUMER COULD COULD
WALK INTO A CAR DEALERSHIP AND
DRIVE A FUEL CELL ELECTRIC
VEHICLE OFF THE LOT. SO FROM THE
FROM THE GET GO, WE HAVE BEEN
FIRMLY FOCUSED ON DE CARBONIZED
, RENEWABLE HYDROGEN. WHAT WE'RE
GOING TO COME BACK TO THE
DEFINITIONS HERE BECAUSE I KNOW
THAT'S A HOT TOPIC AMONG THE
COMMITTEE, BUT WE ARE FIRMLY
FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE THAT THAT
FUEL IS DE CARBONIZED. WE ALSO
DEVELOPED HYDROGEN NETWORK
INVESTMENT PLAN THAT THE CC USED
TO HELP DEVELOP THE STRATEGY FOR
DEPLOYING INVESTMENTS INTO
HYDROGEN INFRASTRUCTURE WE
CREATED AND OPERATIONS AND
MAINTENANCE PROGRAM TO
INCENTIVIZE STATION OWNERS TO
MAINTAIN THE EQUIPMENT WHILE WE
WERE WAITING FOR THE VEHICLES TO
ARRIVE TO BE ABLE TO, YOU KNOW,
KIND OF MAINTAIN ACTIVE
THROUGHPUT AT THESE STATIONS, SO
WE WE'VE REALLY BEEN WORKING IN
THIS SPACE AS I MENTIONED FOR
TWO DECADES TO ENSURE THE
SUCCESS. TESS OF INITIALLY THE
LIGHT DUTY MARKET, THEN MOVING
ON TO THE REST OF MOBILITY, AND
NOW WE ALSO HAVE A STRONG FOCUS
ON RENEWABLE ENERGY STORAGE ON
INDUSTRIAL DECARBONIZATION AND
ON DISASTER RESILIENCE, SO I'LL
I'LL MOVE ON TO THAT HERE. YOU
KNOW, I HAVE A WIDE HYDROGEN
SIDE HERE. I FEEL LIKE I'M
PREACHING TO THE CHOIR. AND YOU
KNOW, I THINK ADAM SUMMED THAT
UP PRETTY WELL, SO WE'LL MOVE
BEYOND THAT. BUT I'LL STOP
QUICKLY, JUST ON THE SLIDE ABOUT
THE FOUR APPLICATIONS THAT I
JUST MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, LOOK,
I THINK MOBILITY I KNOW THAT
MOBILITY IS THE LOW HANGING
FRUIT. MOBILE SOURCE. EMISSIONS
ARE REALLY KIND OF, YOU KNOW,
IT'S NOT OVERALL GOING TO BE AN
EASY TASK. BUT THIS IS REALLY
THE EASIEST PART OF THE ENTIRE
SYSTEM FOR US TO START TO
ADDRESS THESE EMISSIONS THAT ARE
NOT ONLY CREATING GHG EMISSIONS
AND YOU KNOW, LEADING TO CLIMATE
CHANGE AND JUST ONE DISASTER
AFTER ANOTHER THAT I DON'T HAVE
TO GO INTO HERE, BUT ALSO THE
AIR QUALITY ISSUES THAT WE HAVE
, ESPECIALLY AROUND OUR OFFICE.
WE'RE BASED IN SAN PEDRO. SO AT
THE PORK COMPLEX IN L. A RIGHT,
YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THE 7 10
DIESEL DEATH CORRIDOR AS THE
TIMES HAS HAS DEFINED IN THE 105
FREEWAY. WE'RE IN AN AREA THAT
HAS 23,000 REGISTERED DRAINAGE
TRUCKS WITHIN MAYBE A FIVE MILES
, FIVE SQUARE MILE AREA. WE'VE
GOT MARITIME CARGO HANDLING
EQUIPMENT. WE'VE GOT HEAVY
INDUSTRY AROUND THE PORTS, SO WE
REALLY ARE IN A PARTICULARLY
INTERESTING PLACE WHERE WE HAVE
ESSENTIALLY ALL OF THE END USE
APPLICATIONS THAT I'M ABOUT TO
TALK ABOUT ALL IN ONE
CONCENTRATED AREA AND ESPECIALLY
IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, HEAVY
DUTY TRUCKING, CARGO HANDLING
EQUIPMENT AND HARBOR VESSELS. WE
HAVE ALL OF THESE IN ONE PLACE
WHERE WE CAN WE CAN KIND OF
START TO ADDRESS THESE MOBILE
SOURCE EMISSIONS. SO I'M GOING
TO COME BACK TO THAT, STARTING
OUT WITH WITH ENERGY STORAGE. UM
THIS SEEMS LIKE THE MOST
STRAIGHT FEL AND MOST SCALABLE
ASPECT OF THE TASK. YOU KNOW, IN
FRONT OF US RELATIVE TO
HYDROGEN, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A
LOT OF OPTIONS FOR GLOBAL GRID
LEVEL ENERGY STORAGE OF
RENEWABLES THAT WILL ALLOW US TO
PRODUCE RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY
WITH WIND AND SOLAR, YOU KNOW,
DURING THE DAY AND THE DESERT
AND IN CALIFORNIA AND THEN BE
ABLE TO RETURN TURN THAT TO THE
GRID AT A LEVEL THAT'S GOING TO
KEEP THE LIGHTS ON IN A PLACE
THE SIZE OF LOS ANGELES
OVERNIGHT, EVERY NIGHT AND NOT
TO MENTION YOU KNOW THAT THE
SEASONAL NEED FOR RENEWABLE
ENERGY STORAGE HERE AS WELL. YOU
KNOW, CITING DR JACK BROWER'S
RESEARCH AT UC IRVINE, THERE IS
LITERALLY NOT ENOUGH LITHIUM OR
COBALT ON THE PLANET TO UTILIZE
BATTERIES FOR GRID LEVEL ENERGY
STORAGE ACROSS THE GLOBE. IT'S
JUST IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. I THINK
HIS STATS WERE, IT WOULD REQUIRE
70 TIME TIMES THE KNOWN AMOUNT
OF LITHIUM RESERVES ON THE
PLANET AND 1000 TIMES THE KNOWN
AMOUNT OF COBALT RESERVES ON THE
PLANET. WE SIMPLY CANNOT STORE
ENOUGH RENEWABLE ENERGY TO KEEP
THE LIGHTS ON IN CALIFORNIA
OVERNIGHT WITH BATTERIES ALONE.
OTHER TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE
EFFICIENT PUMPED HYDRO, BUT AS
YOU MIGHT RECOGNIZE, WE HAVE
SOME ISSUES WITH WATER IN
CALIFORNIA AS WELL. AND WE JUST
THE SCALE THAT WE NEED TO STORE
ENERGY AND RETURN TO THE GRID.
JUST AS IT IS NOT CONDUCIVE TO
US BUILDING, YOU KNOW, NEW
PUMPED HYDRO FACILITIES AND FOR
REASONS THAT THAT ADAM EXPLAINED
BEFORE ME. THERE ARE A LOT OF
OPPORTUNITIES RIGHT NOW TO
UTILIZE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF
CURTAILED ENERGY IN CALIFORNIA.
WHERE WERE YOU KNOW ONLY ABOUT A
33 34% RENEWABLE GRID MIX. WE
ARE CURTAILING GIGAWATT LEVELS
OF RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY EVERY
YEAR THAT WERE EITHER WASTING OR
PAYING OTHER STATES TO TAKE OFF
OF OUR HANDS. TO PUT THAT IN
SCALE. THE LAST TIME I DID THE
BACK OF THE ENVELOPE, MATH WAS
PROBABLY WITH THE CURTAILMENT
REPORTS FROM TWO YEARS AGO, WE
WERE CURTAILING ENOUGH ENERGY TO
RUN 700,000 LIGHT DUTY FUEL CELL
ELECTRIC VEHICLES 2 TO 3 YEARS
AGO AT A 33% RENEWABLE MIX HERE
IN CALIFORNIA. THAT'S HOW MUCH
RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY WE'RE
WASTING, AND THAT'S THE
POTENTIAL SCALE OF BEING ABLE TO
CAPTURE. AND STORE THAT ENERGY
AND THEN RETURN IT EITHER TO THE
GRID OR TO THE MOBILITY SECTOR.
SO I THINK ENERGY STORAGE.
EXCUSE ME. PRESENTS THE MOST
SCALABLE APPLICATION FOR
HYDROGEN OVER OVER THE LONG TERM
. I DON'T THINK IT'S THE MOST
IMPACTFUL NEAR TERM UTILIZATION
OF, YOU KNOW, FINITE INVESTMENT
RESOURCES TO BUILD OUT THE
HYDROGEN ECOSYSTEM, BUT I THINK
IT IS FIRMLY WHERE OUR SITES
SHOULD BE SET. AND THEN WHEN YOU
LOOK AT THIS SCALE OF THE AMOUNT
OF ENERGY STORAGE THAT WE NEED
AND THE AMOUNT OF HYDROGEN THAT
THAT WILL REQUIRE, YOU'LL SEE
THAT THAT IN A LOT OF WAYS
DWARFS TRANSPORTATION, WHICH IS
IT IS IN AND OF ITSELF A MASSIVE
APPLICATION. SO I GUESS MY POINT
IN TELLING YOU THIS. EXCUSE ME.
IS THAT WE CAN'T OR SHOULDN'T
JUST LOOK AT HYDROGEN IN THE
SILOS OF MOBILITY OR ENERGY
STORAGE OR INDUSTRIAL CARBON
IZATION, DECARBONIZATION OR
DISASTER. RESILIENT IT'S VERY
MUCH INTERCONNECTED. AND WHEN
YOU START TO CONSIDER THE CASE
FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY STORAGE, AS
WE MARCH TOWARD ARE 100%
RENEWABLE ENERGY MANDATE BY 2045
AND CONSIDER THE AMOUNT OF
HYDROGEN THAT THAT WOULD TAKE TO
ACHIEVE THAT GOAL. ALL OF A
SUDDEN, WE START TO REALIZE
WELL, MAYBE IT IT'S ALSO
ACHIEVABLE, YOU KNOW? TO USE A
FRACTION OF THAT FOR MOBILITY
AND FOR SOME OF THE OTHER
APPLICATIONS THAT WE'RE GOING TO
TALK ABOUT TODAY. SO THE
PREVIOUS SPEAKER TALKED A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT INDUSTRIAL DEEP
DECARBONIZATION. THIS IS AGAIN
ANOTHER AREA WHERE WE JUST
SIMPLY CANNOT USE ELECTRICITY
AND BATTERIES TO CREATE THAT THE
HEAT THAT WE NEED FOR CONCRETE
PRODUCTION FOR STEEL PRODUCTION
GLASS. EVEN THE REFINERIES WE
HAVE HERE IN CALIFORNIA 16 17
REFINERIES. THEY ALL HAVE TO USE
HYDROGEN TO CLEAN UP THE LIQUID
FUELS THAT THEY'RE PRODUCING.
THEY'RE USING. FOR THE MOST
PART, FOSSIL HYDROGEN. WE CAN
HAVING AN IMMEDIATE IMPACT ON
THE CURRENT REFINING NETWORK BY
UTILIZING OR SWITCHING OVER TO
RENEWABLE HYDROGEN, CARBON IZING
GASOLINE AND DIESEL AS WE'RE
PRODUCING IT TODAY, WHILE
SIMULTANEOUSLY BUILDING THE
SCALE FOR HYDROGEN PRODUCTION
THAT WE'RE GOING TO NEED FOR THE
OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT. SO AGAIN, YOU
KNOW, NOT THE MOST ECONOMIC NEAR
TERM USE OF RENEWABLE HYDROGEN
IS CERTAINLY NOT THE MOST
IMPACTFUL IN TERMS OF THE
ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT, BUT
ANOTHER MASSIVE OPPORTUNITY TO D
CARBON IS HEAVY INDUSTRY IN
CALIFORNIA AND BEYOND DISASTER.
RESILIENT IS KIND OF A BIT OF A
COMBINATION OF THE OTHER THREE
AREAS, ESSENTIALLY WHEN THE GRID
GOES DOWN, AS IT DOES ALL TOO
OFTEN HERE IN CALIFORNIA, WE
HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE HYDROGEN
FOR STATIONARY POWER PRODUCTION
IN A PLETHORA OF WAYS THAT VARY
FROM, YOU KNOW, LITERALLY USING
THE CHEN ONE TOYOTA MIRAI, WHICH
YOU KNOW CAME WITH AN AUXILIARY
POWER OFF TAKE ON THE ON THE
JAPANESE VERSION. AGAIN THIS WAS
A MODEL THAT CAME OUT 89 YEARS
AGO. SO TWO GENERATIONS AGO THAT
CARRIED ENOUGH FUEL ON BOARD TO
POWER THE AVERAGE AMERICAN HOME
FOR A FULL WEEK WITHOUT TURNING
OFF ALL OUR TVS AND WASHING
MACHINES AND AIR CONDITIONING
AND ALL THE THINGS THAT
AMERICANS HAVE BEEN ACCUSTOMED
TO SO CAR THAT WAS BOUTTE TWO
GENERATIONS AGO, EIGHT YEARS OLD
, HAD ENOUGH FUEL TO POWER THE
AVERAGE AMERICAN HOME FOR ONE
FULL WEEK. PARK IT IN YOUR
GARAGE. PLUG IT INTO YOUR
ELECTRIC PANEL. KEEP THE GARAGE
DOOR CLOSED BECAUSE THE ONLY
EMISSION IS PURE WATER, WHICH
HAS ITS OWN, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL
AND BENEFITS THERE, SO I THINK
THE DISASTER RESILIENCE
CONVERSATION CAN GO ALL THE WAY
UP TO KIND OF BRINGING IN THIS
CONCEPT OF GRID LEVEL ENERGY
STORAGE, BEING ABLE TO UTILIZE
GUYS FUEL CELLS TO RETURN ENERGY
TO THE GRID WHEN WE NEED IT THE
MOST OR TO DO THINGS LIKE UM,
PROVIDE AUXILIARY POWER FOR
CARGO SHIPS, CONTAINER SHIPS AS
THEY COME INTO THE PORTS, WHICH
YOU KNOW, OR LIKE PLUGGING IN A,
YOU KNOW, A TWO MEGAWATT PLUS
CONSUMER OF ELECTRICITY EVERY
TIME ONE OF THESE SHIPS COMES
INTO THE PORTS, YOU START TO
LOOK AT AT CRUISE SHIPS IN THE
PORTS LOOKING 10 TO 12
MEGAWATTS. IT'S LIKE PLUGGING IN
A SMALL CITY EVERY TIME A CRUISE
SHIP COMES INTO DOCK AT ONE OF
THE PORTS HERE, SO THERE ARE
THESE, REALLY, UM, REALLY HIGH
POTENTIAL NEAR TERM
OPPORTUNITIES FOR STATIONARY.
REPOWER. UTILIZING HYDROGEN FUEL
CELLS THAT SERVE A ROLE IN
DISASTER RESILIENCE, BUT ALSO
START TO HELP US REACH THE
ECONOMIES OF SCALE THAT WE NEED
TO SEE TO BRING HYDROGEN DOWN TO
THE PRICES THAT THE PREVIOUS
SPEAKER TALKED ABOUT, SO I'LL
QUIT DWELLING ON THESE END USE
APPLICATIONS. MAYBE WE CAN COME
BACK TO THAT. AND THE Q AND A
SECTION BUT I REALLY WANTED TO
LEAVE THIS PART OF THE
CONVERSATION WITH THE FACT THAT
THESE FOUR AREAS ARE SO
INCREDIBLY INTERTWINED THAT
POTENTIAL REALLY JUDGE THE ROLE
OF HYDROGEN IN THE ENERGY SYSTEM
BASED ON SOMETHING AS YOU KNOW,
SMALL AS LIGHT DUTY
TRANSPORTATION WHILE IGNORING
THESE OTHER END USE APPLICATIONS
, I THINK WOULDN'T WOULD NOT
SUIT US VERY WELL IN THIS
CONVERSATION. THANK YOU. LET ME
TURN IT OVER. TO THE COMMITTEE
FOR QUESTIONS, COMMENTS. YES,
SENATOR SKINNER. HMM THANK YOU
FOR THE PRESENTATION, SO YOU
REFERRED TO ARE CURTAILED? UH
PRIMARILY, IT'S OUR SOLAR
GENERATION THAT WE ARE THEN
CURTAILING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE
DAY WHEN WE ARE PRODUCING MORE
THAN WE NEED, UM, SO YOU
DESCRIBED ABOUT THE GREAT
POTENTIAL FOR STORAGE. UH AND
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR
GROUP HAS NOT NECESSARILY DONE
RESEARCH, BUT, UH COMPILED THE
RESEARCH ON WOOD, UH, WOOD. THE
PRODUCTION OPTIMALLY BE AT THAT
LOCATION WHERE THE SOLAR
GENERATION IS. AND WOULD WOULD
IT BE, WHAT FORM MOST LIKELY
ELECTROLYTIC OR SOMETHING ELSE?
SO YOU DON'T? I DON'T. I DON'T
BELIEVE THAT IT THE PRODUCTION
NECESSARILY HAS TO BE AT THE AT
THE SOURCE OF ENERGY PRODUCTION
, RIGHT? I THINK AS WE BUILD A
STRONGER AND MORE RELIABLE GRID
, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE
ELECTRONS AROUND THE STATE TO
MOVE. YOU KNOW IF IT'S AN
ELECTROLYZER ELECTROLYZERS TO
PLACES WHERE YOU KNOW THEY'RE
EASIER TO OPERATE OR CHEAPER TO
OPERATE OR WHAT WE HAVE MORE
ACCESS TO WATER. EXCUSE ME. I
BELIEVE IT'S REALLY THE CONCEPT
OF UTILIZING THIS ELECTRICITY
AND INSTEAD OF WASTING IT, AND
YOU KNOW IT'S ESSENTIALLY
ELECTRICITY THAT YOU KNOW, THE
STATE AGAIN IS SOMETIMES PAYING
TO GIVE AWAY. MEANWHILE TO
OPERATE A CONVENTIONAL ELECTORAL
ISAR USING RETAIL ELECTRIC RATES
CREATIVE, YOU KNOW,
PROHIBITIVELY EXPENSIVE FUEL.
AND SO WE HAVE THIS LIKE LOW
HANGING FRUIT. WITH THIS
CURTAILED ELECTRICITY. THAT'S
ONLY GOING TO INCREASE
SUBSTANTIALLY AS WE MOVE. BEYOND
OUR 34% GRID MIX HERE. I MEAN,
WE CAN'T GET TO 100% RENEWABLE
ELECTRICITY WITHOUT MASSIVE, AH
ENERGY STORAGE SCALE, BUT WE
CAN'T REALLY EVEN GET TO 60%
RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY AT THE
GRID LEVEL IN CALIFORNIA WITHOUT
YOU KNOW, WITHOUT SUBSTANTIAL
STORAGE HERE. UM I THINK THIS
ALSO SPEAKS A LITTLE BIT IF I
MAY TO THE TO THE HYDROGEN
RAINBOW, AS WE HAVE REFERRED TO,
YOU KNOW, THIS IS A TOPIC, UH,
THAT HAS TAKEN A LOT OF TIME AND
RESOURCES AS WE HAVE ADDRESSED
IT BOTH WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION
THAT I RUN WITHIN THE CALIFORNIA
HYDROGEN BUSINESS COUNCIL WITHIN
THE HYDROGEN FUEL CELL
PARTNERSHIP. AH THE RAINBOW.
JUST TO PUT IT BLUNTLY HAS DONE
MORE HARM THAN GOOD. WE HAVE
VERY SOUND METHODS OF MEASURING
CARBON INTENSITY THAT WE HAVE
BEEN UTILIZING THROUGH THE L. C
F S PROGRAM FOR MANY YEARS BASED
ON HARD SCIENCE ABOUT HOW MUCH
YOU KNOW CARBON WILL BE EMITTED
FROM VARIOUS FUEL TYPES USING
VARIOUS FEEDSTOCKS AND VARIOUS
PRODUCTION METHODS. ULTIMATELY
IF WE ARE SETTING A GOAL OF ZERO
CARBON, I BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD
LET THE MARKET COMPETE TO
UTILIZE AND GENERATE WHATEVER
FEEDSTOCKS THEY CAN USE. AS LONG
AS THEY ARE MEETING THESE ZERO
OR LOW CARBON GOALS AND
UTILIZING WHATEVER PRODUCTION
TECHNOLOGIES THAT WILL ALLOW
SOME COMPETITION WITH IN THE
MARKET AND SOME INNOVATION, TOO.
YOU KNOW, START TO IMPROVE
PRODUCTION TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE
OUTSIDE OF ELECTROLYSIS, AND
I'LL SAY BRIEFLY, AND THEN I'LL
BE QUIET. SO YOU CAN ASK THE
NEXT QUESTION. YOU KNOW, THIS
ISN'T ME COMING OUT AGAINST
ELECTROLYSIS. BUT ONCE AGAIN,
YOU KNOW THERE'S NOT A SILVER
BULLET. WE CAN'T PICK A WINNER.
IT'S NOT VHS BETA MAX. IN
REALITY, THE HYDROGEN ECOSYSTEM
THAT WE NEED TO DEVELOP HERE
WILL HAVE VARIOUS TYPES OF
PRODUCTION. IT WILL UTILIZE
RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY IN THE
SHORT TERM, IT WILL UTILIZE
SIZED NON RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY
. IT WILL UTILIZE BIOGAS THAT'LL
UTILIZED FOSSIL GAS. UM I THINK
WHAT'S MOST IMPORTANT AND
SOMETHING THAT WE LEARNED IN
DEVELOPING. SB 15 05. THANKS A
LOT TO OUR GOVERNMENT PARTNERS.
THAT REALLY MADE IT CLEAR TO US
THAT REQUIRING A 100% RENEWABLE
OR ZERO CARBON PRODUCT FROM THE
GET GO WILL WILL CRITICALLY
IMPAIR THE GLIDE PATH TO
COMMERCIALIZATION FOR THIS
TECHNOLOGY AND THE BEST ANALOGY
THAT I THAT I CAN PROVIDE RIGHT
NOW IS TO YOU KNOW, SAY WITH THE
YOU KNOW HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES
THAT WE HAVE DRIVING AROUND
CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW. WE'RE NOT
REQUIRING THAT THOSE VEHICLES
REFUEL OR RECHARGE, UTILIZING
100% RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY
DIRECTLY WITHOUT THE OFFSET OF
CREDITS. BUT WE, YOU KNOW THERE
IS AN ONGOING CONVERSATION THAT
HOLDING HYDROGEN TO A DIFFERENT
STANDARD THERE. AND THERE IS A
FUNDAMENTAL ASSUMPTION THAT THE
ELECTRICAL GRID WILL BE 100%
RENEWABLE 20 NOW, YEARS FROM NOW
, AND THAT WILL BE OKAY. THAT'S
ON AUTOPILOT. THE HYDROGEN
INDUSTRY IS BEING HELD TO A
DIFFERENT STANDARD THERE. SO
WITH THAT, I'LL PAUSE AND ALLOW
SOME FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS. GOOD
POINT. ANYTHING ELSE BELIEVE FOR
NOW? YEAH. THANK YOU, MR CHERRY
. I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS,
AND, UM AND I AND I WANT TO
ESSENTIALLY AGREE WITH YOU. I
THINK PART OF THE CHALLENGES WE
PICKED WINNERS AND LOSERS IN IN
THE ENERGY SPACE, PART OF THE
CHALLENGE. FOR ME AS I REPRESENT
A DISTRICT IN THE CENTRAL VALLEY
. UM, THAT IS, UM IS BEING
SCOPED OUT BECAUSE OF OUR
PERIODIC DROUGHTS AND THE
POSSIBILITY THAT HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF ACRES OF A GLAND
WILL BE, UM WE'LL HAVE TO BE
FOLLOWED AND HUNDREDS MAYBE
THOUSANDS OF ACRES LAST YEAR
WERE FOLLOWED, BECAUSE, UM, WE
DIDN'T HAVE WATER. AND, UM AND
SO THE ONLY UH, POSSIBILITY
RIGHT NOW, FOR FARMERS TO BE
ABLE TO UTILIZE THEIR LAND IS TO
PUT IT IN SOLAR. AND, UM. WE WE
DON'T LOOK AT THE ENVIRONMENTAL
IMPACT. OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF ACRES. UM, LAND. THAT HAS
BEEN PRODUCING FOR THE STATE IN
SOLAR AND THEN THE IMPACT ON THE
LOCAL COMMUNITY. WHEN YOU TAKE
THAT SOLAR AND YOU SEND IT TO
BIG CITIES BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE
THE NEED IS, UM, AND THERE'S NO
BENEFIT BECAUSE THERE'S NO
PROPERTY TAXES PAID ON SOLAR
ERASE, SO THEY WILL SEE A
DIMENSION YOU ATION OF LOCAL
TAXES FOR, UM CITIES AND
COUNTIES AND, AND THE CHALLENGES
IS THAT LAND COULD BE JUST AS
PRODUCTIVE IN THE PRODUCTION OF
HYDROGEN IN CARBON CAPTURE AND
OTHER OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT
WOULD PROVIDE GOOD JOBS WOULD
PROVIDE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE
COMMUNITIES TO SEE SOME, UM
BENEFIT BECAUSE IT BECOMES
TAXABLE AND PRODUCES REVENUE.
BUT ALSO HELPS US TO MEET OUR
CLIMATE GOALS. AND SO I'M WITH
YOU ON THE MARKET AND ON THE
KIND OF REQUIREMENT AND I THINK
THE MORE THAT WE CAN UNDERSTAND
HOW WE'VE DISPROPORTIONATELY
ASSIGNED REQUIREMENTS TO ONE
INDUSTRY, AS OPPOSED TO ANOTHER
IS IMPORTANT TO ME AND I ALSO,
UM I WONDER IF YOU HAVE A CAN A
PINE ON THE, UM WELL, AND SO THE
OTHER ASPECT OF. OF THE
CHALLENGE WE FACE IS THAT OPENER
OR BURNING OF AGRICULTURAL WASTE
HAS BEEN PERMITTED, BUT AND IN
2025, SO WE HAVE A COOKING AT A
TIME CLOCK. THAT'S TICKING THAT,
UM BASICALLY, WE'RE GOING TO
HAVE A LOT OF FEEDSTOCK THAT
WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO GET RID
OF HIM WILL HAVE NO PLACE TO PUT
IT AND SO THE ABILITY TO DO
BIOMASS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, AND
IT'S DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS 50
YEARS AGO, AND IT'S NO LONGER
COLD. UM OR OR POLLUTES, AS IT
DID IN THE PAST. UM SO THE
ABILITY TO LOOK AT THE SYSTEMS
THAT WE CAN CREATE AROUND
GENERATING ENOUGH ENERGY TO
PRODUCE HYDROGEN BUT THEN ALSO
TO GET RID OF WASTE IS REALLY
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO ME, AND
I'M WONDERING IF AND YET BIOMASS
AND HYDROGEN WERE NOT INCLUDED
IN OUR EXPEDITED INFRASTRUCTURE
PACKAGE. SO UM, IF WE WERE TO,
UM, RETHINK THE HYDROGEN, IS
THERE A. DEFINITION THAT YOU
WOULD FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE. UM
WITH ME. THAT WAS PART OF THE
DISAGREEMENT WAS EXACTLY HOW
BROAD DO YOU DEFINE THE
PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN? AND IS
IT A COLOR? OR IS IT AN
APPLICATION LIKE FROM WATER ONLY
AND WONDERING IF YOU'VE GOT AN
IDEA OF WHAT THAT MIGHT BE.
ABSOLUTELY AND YOU KNOW AGAIN,
IT'S A TOPIC THAT'S BEEN HOTLY
CONTESTED AND, YOU KNOW, HOURS
AND HOURS OF CONVERSATIONS
BETWEEN THE ORGANIZATIONS AMONG
THE BOARD OF OUR ORGANIZATION
POLICY AND REGULATORY COMMUNITY
. ULTIMATELY THE SIMPLE ANSWER
IS IT. IT SHOULD BE DEFINED
BASED ON CARBON INTENSITY. AND I
THINK THAT ECHOES THE SENTIMENT
OF THE LAST SPEAKER AS WELL. WE
HAVE MODELS LIKE THE GREEK MODEL
THAT THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA HAS
USED SUCCESSFULLY FOR YEARS TO
SUPPORT THE LCF S PROGRAM AND TO
SPEAK DIRECTLY TO THESE OTHER
FEEDSTOCKS, AND THIS IS THIS IS
AN AREA THAT'S BECOME, YOU KNOW
SOMEWHAT OF A POLITICAL THIRD
RAIL IN CALIFORNIA BECAUSE
NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT
BIOGAS AND FEAR OF REPRISALS
FROM THE ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY
SIMILARLY FOR LANDFILL GAS AND
FOR FOREST WASTE THAT WE HAVE TO
CLEAR OUT IN ORDER TO MITIGATE
FORCE FIRES, BUT WE'VE HAD A
PATHWAY WITHIN THE LCS PROGRAM
AND APPROVED PATHWAY FOR DAIRY
BIO GAS TO HYDROGEN. THAT HAS
ROUGHLY AND THE EXACT NUMBER
SUBS ME IT'S A NEGATIVE 270 10
NEGATIVE 280 CARBON INTENSITY BY
UTILIZING THIS THIS DAIRY BIOGAS
THAT OTHERWISE WOULD BE SENT
INTO MANURE LAGOONS AND ALLOWED
TO ESCAPE OR THEN BURNED AND
CREATING CO TWO EMISSIONS. SO
YOU KNOW IN A NUTSHELL. AH
AGRICULTURAL WASTE AND DAIRY
BIOGAS IS LITERALLY CLEANER THAN
USING ZERO EMISSION TECHNOLOGIES
, JUST LIKE SOLAR DIRECTLY TO,
YOU KNOW, THROUGH HIGH
ELECTROLYSIS TO PRODUCE HYDROGEN
NOW, YOU KNOW THEY'RE GOING TO
BE CHALLENGES AND ALL OF THESE
PRODUCTION TYPES THEIR
CHALLENGES WITHIN THE
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY, OF
WHICH I'M A PART AND SPENT SO
MUCH OF MY TIME ENGAGING MY
PEERS IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL
COMMUNITY TO SAY, HEY, THIS IS
NOT A TROJAN HORSE FOR FOSSIL
FUELS. THIS IS A WAY THAT WE CAN
MITIGATE METHANE. EMISSIONS FROM
THE AGRICULTURAL INDUSTRY. IT'S
A WAY THAT WE CAN WERE FLARING
50% OF LANDFILL GAS IN
CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW IT'S A IT'S
ABSURD AND THESE ARE ALL
RESOURCES. THAT WE CAN BE USING
FOR GOOD INSTEAD OF JUST TRYING
TO MITIGATE AND CANCEL OUT THE
NEGATIVE IMPACT. THESE ARE
THINGS THAT WE SHOULD BE
UTILIZING RIGHT NOW, ESPECIALLY
AS WE, YOU KNOW, CREATE THIS
GLIDE PATH TO COMMERCIALIZATION
AND WANT TO CREATE A COMPETITIVE
ENVIRONMENT FOR THE HYDROGEN
COMMUNITY TO REALLY TRY TO COME
IN AND COMPETE WITH TECHNOLOGY
THAT'S AFFORDABLE, HIGHLY
EFFICIENT AND EASILY DEPLOYED
ACROSS A VARIETY OF GEOGRAPHY IS
AND. YOU KNOW COMMUNITIES ACROSS
THE STATE HERE. THANK YOU. ANY
OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS. IF
NOT, I JUST, UH DETERMINE
VESTMENT. AND ARE WE LOOKING IN
THE FUTURE WITH WITH LOCAL
GOVERNMENT, UM, STATE OF
CALIFORNIA PRIVATE SECTORS JOINT
VENTURES BECAUSE WE NEED THE
INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT'S PART OF
THIS MISSING LINK
INFRASTRUCTURE. CAN YOU ADDRESS
THAT? YES, SIR. I CAN, UM THE
AMOUNT OF INVESTMENT. ACROSS THE
BOARD, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW,
IGNORING HYDROGEN IS ONE
COMPONENT THE AMOUNT OF
INVESTMENT THAT WE COLLECTIVELY
WILL REQUIRE TO DE CARBONIZED.
CALIFORNIA IS MASSIVE HUNDREDS
HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS
. IF NOT MORE, WE PENCILED OUT
WHAT IT WOULD TAKE TO BUILD OUT
THE HYDROGEN CAPACITY THAT WE
WERE LOOKING FOR. SIMPLY AROUND
THE PORTS AND THE L A AREA AND
EXPANDING OUT INTO L A COUNTY
AND QUICKLY PENCE IT OUT TENS OF
BILLIONS OF DOLLARS WORTH OF
INVESTMENT. I MEAN, A VERY, YOU
KNOW, STRAIGHTFORWARD EXAMPLE OF
THIS IS THAT YOU KNOW THE 23,000
DRAINAGE TRUCKS THAT WE HAVE AT
THE PORTS RIGHT RIGHT NOW THEIR
FUEL CELL VERSIONS OF THOSE
TRUCKS ARE 3 TO 4 TIMES THE COST
OF DIESEL. WE NEED TO SEE THOSE
THINGS COME OUT AND SCALE TO,
REALLY, YOU KNOW, BRING IT DOWN
TO BECOME COMPETITIVE WITH
DIESEL. BUT THE COST OF
REPLACING THAT ENTIRE FLEET. NOT
THAT THE ENTIRE FLEET HAS TO BE
REPLACED AT ONCE, BUT JUST TO
GIVE YOU YOU KNOW, A BASELINE OF
COMPARISON HERE, THE COST TO
REPLACE JUST THE TRUCKS WOULD BE
ABOUT $10 BILLION. SO YOU KNOW,
I KNOW WE'RE VERY EXCITED ABOUT
A BILLION DOLLARS, POTENTIALLY
FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
FOR HYDROGEN HUB FUNDING HERE,
BUT WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CAREFUL
ABOUT HOW THAT MONEY IS
DISTRIBUTED ACROSS THE STATE AND
MAKE SURE THAT IT'S NOT DELUDED
SO MUCH THAT WE DON'T HAVE THAT
WE CAN'T REACH THAT TIPPING
POINT IN ANY ONE OF THE VARIOUS
APPLICATIONS THAT WERE YOU
LOOKING TO UTILIZE THE FUNDING
FOR AND SO YOU KNOW, I KNOW
WE'RE RUNNING SHORT ON TIME. BUT
MY THESIS IN THAT CONTEXT IS WE
SHOULD FOCUS ON THE PORTS.
23,000 RAGE TRUCKS. WE'VE GOT
3000 PIECES OF CARGO HANDLING
EQUIPMENT THAT HAVE TO BE DE
CARBONIZED BY 2030. WE'VE GOT 45
TUGBOATS THAT EMIT MORE THAN THE
3000 PIECES OF CARGO HANDLING
EQUIPMENT. WE HAVE SHORE POWER
FOR CARGO SHIPS. WE HAVE SHORE
POWER FOR CRUISE SHIPS. WE HAVE
REFINERIES, YOU KNOW, WITHIN A
COUPLE OF MILES OF THE POOR, WE
HAVE POWER PRODUCTION. WE HAVE
EVERYTHING RIGHT THERE AND IF WE
CAN FOCUS INVESTMENT ON ONE KEY
AREA AND GET IT TO THE TIPPING
POINT WHERE WE'RE CREATING, YOU
KNOW NOT ONLY THE ENVIRONMENTAL
IMPACT THAT THAT WE DESIRE
THROUGH, YOU KNOW EMISSIONS
REDUCTIONS FOR DRAINAGE TRUCKS,
BUT THE AMOUNT OF FUEL THAT THAT
WOULD REQUIRE WOULD THEN HELP TO
GENERATE THE ECONOMIES OF SCALE
. WE NEED TO REDUCE THE COST OF
RENEWABLE HYDROGEN. SO IT'S
PRETTY OBVIOUS THAT CALIFORNIA
NEEDS TO QUESTION YES, SIR.
ABSOLUTELY IT NEEDS HYDROGEN,
AND THERE'S ONE REAL. THE KEY
POINT, IF YOU IF YOU'RE HUMANLY
HERE THAT I'D LIKE TO MAKE
BECAUSE LIGHT DUTY SEEMS TO I'M
SORRY. GO AHEAD AND PLAY. YES
SIR. SO YOU KNOW, LIGHT DUTY IS
A VERY POLARIZING TOPIC LIKE
DUTIES ADS. IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW,
I'VE BEEN IN THIS FOR ALMOST 20
YEARS. WE'RE JUST GETTING KILLED
ON A DAY TO DAY BASIS IN LIGHT
DUTY AGAIN. YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS
LIKE A LOT OF THE REGULATORY
COMMUNITY POLICY COMMUNITY
ENVIRONMENTAL COMMUNITY JUST
WANTS TO PICK A WINNER IN THIS
VHS VERSUS BETA MAX TYPE
ARGUMENT. AND EVERY OTHER PHRASE
YOU KNOW, COMING OUT OF THESE
CONVERSATIONS IS ENVIRONMENTAL
JUSTICE, ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE.
WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE
DOING THIS AND ADJUST WAY THAT'S
IMPACTING DISADVANTAGED
COMMUNITIES AND UNDERSERVED
COMMUNITIES. YOU KNOW THAT
ESSENTIALLY HELPED MAKE UP FOR
SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE
HAVE IMPOSED ON THOSE
COMMUNITIES. YET IT'S A LOT OF
THE SAME PEOPLE THAT ARE TALKING
ABOUT THIS THAT SAY WE'RE GOING
TO DO THIS ALL WITH BATTERY
ELECTRIC VEHICLES, AND I'D LIKE
TO REMIND THE COMMITTEE THAT
WE'RE IN A STATE OF 40 MILLION
PEOPLE, ABOUT HALF OF WHICH LIVE
IN MULTI FAMILY HOUSING THAT
DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE A GARAGE
WHERE THEY CAN RELY ON LEAVING A
CAR EVERY NIGHT OR EVEN A
DEDICATED PARKING SPOT WHERE
THEY CAN RELY ON LEAVING A CAR
EVERY NIGHT. THESE ARE PEOPLE
THAT WILL REQUIRE COMMUNAL
ACCESS TO QUICK REFUELING AND
THAT WE ARE NOW REQUIRING ONLY
BY ZERO EMISSION VEHICLES
STARTING IN 10 YEARS FROM NOW,
SO THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY
THAT WE CAN SUPPORT 100%
CONVERSION TO ZERO EMISSION
VEHICLES BATTERY ONLY IN THIS
STATE, AND IF WE TRY TO DO THAT,
WE'RE GOING TO BE HARMING THE
COMMUNITIES THAT WERE MOST
TRYING TO HELP RIGHT NOW. SO AS
MUCH AS I'M YOU KNOW, I TRY NOT
TO LEAD OFF WITH LIGHT DUTY
BECAUSE I KNOW IT JUST OPENS ME
UP TO GETTING YOU KNOW, ROTTEN
FRUIT THROWN AT ME HERE. WE
ABSOLUTELY CANNOT IGNORE LIGHT
DUTY IN THE CONTEXT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE. MR
GHOSTING. WE REALLY APPRECIATE
YOUR TESTIMONY. OKAY. WELL,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, AND I
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. ALL RIGHT
. NEXT UH, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN
, WILL BE, UH AH BALMIER VALMIR
SER MENTAL. DARKEN. PLEASE.
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH.
VLADIMIR SARMENTO DARKEN IS A
DIRECTOR OF CLEAN HYDROGEN AT
LINDE. AND HE HAS BEEN WORKING
IN HYDROGEN SECTOR FOR OVER TWO
DECADES, HOLDS A MASTERS IN
SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING
UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA AS
WELL AS AN EXECUTIVE POSITION
AND HIS COMPANY AND ALSO AN M B
A. FROM I E BUSINESS SCHOOL. HE
HAS SERVED AS DIRECTOR OF CLEAN
HYDROGEN. AT LINDE FOR OVER
SEVEN YEARS. AND WE WELCOME YOU,
SIR. THANK YOU. PLEASE BEGIN.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SENATOR.
CHAIRMAN ARCHULETTA AND MEMBERS
OF THE COMMITTEE. MY NAME IS
SENATOR, SAID VLADIMIR SARMIENTO
LARKIN, DIRECTOR FOR CLEAN
HYDROGEN FROM LINDA. I'M GOING
TO TRY TO READ MY STATEMENT. SO
WE COVER ALL THE POINTS I HAVE.
AND WE DO IT IN IN IN THE YOU'RE
KEEPING THE TIME. GOOD I'M
THANKFUL FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO
TESTIFY THIS MORNING ON THE
IMPORTANCE OF HYDROGEN AND
CALIFORNIA FOR TO CREATE A MORE
SUSTAINABLE HYDROGEN ECONOMY.
LINDA IS A LEADING GLOBAL
INDUSTRIAL GASSES AND
ENGINEERING COMPANY, THE COMPANY
SERVICE VARIETY OF END MARKETS,
SUCH CHEMICALS AND ENERGY, FOOD
AND BEVERAGE, ELECTRONIC
HEALTHCARE, MANUFACTURING,
METALS AND MINING, JUST TO NAME
A FEW. LINDE INDUSTRIAL GASSES
TECHNOLOGY ARE USING COUNTER
COUNTLESS APPLICATIONS,
INCLUDING PRODUCTION OF CLEAN
HYDROGEN AND CARBON CAPTURE
SYSTEMS CRITICAL FOR THE ENERGY
TRANSITION. LINDA ALSO DELIVERS
THE STATE OF THE ART GAS
PROCESSING SOLUTIONS TO SUPPORT
CUSTOMERS, EXPANSIONS,
EFFICIENCY IMPROVEMENTS AND
EMISSION REDUCTION IN A BROAD
VARIETY OF INDUSTRIAL PROCESSES.
LINDA FIRST HYDROGEN PRODUCTION
, STORAGE AND DISTRIBUTION
FACILITY WAS BUILT HERE IN
SACRAMENTO IN 1959, AND IT WAS
LATER RELOCATED TO ONTARIO. IN
1962, WHERE HE HAS BEEN IN
CONTINUOUS OPERATIONS FOR 61
YEARS. MAYBE THE SENATOR
REMEMBERS. HE TOURED THE PLANT A
COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. YEAH. TO
DISTRIBUTE HYDROGEN PRODUCTS
FROM ONTARIO LINDY ONS AND
OPERATES A HIGHLY DEVELOPED
TRUCKING FLEET AS THE LARGEST
LIQUID HYDROGEN DISTRIBUTOR IN
THE WORLD. WE PROVIDE LOGISTIC
SUPPORT THAT SUPPLIES CUSTOMERS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY. LINDA,
ONTARIO FACILITIES SERVE A LARGE
BORDER FOLIO OF CUSTOMERS THAT
INCLUDE A SPACE LAUNCH ENDING
PROPELLANTS, METAL MANUFACTURING
, CHEMICAL PRODUCTION, AS WELL
AS SUPPLYING THE MOBILITY MARKET
. FUEL CELL MANUFACTURERS AND
HYDRO YOU VEHICLES OR AM AS A
LEADER IN THE INDUSTRY HAS
ALREADY PROACTIVELY TAKING THE
STEPS TO THE CARBONIZED ITS
FACILITIES IN THE US WITH THE
ONTARIO FACILITY BEING AMONG THE
FIRST ALONG WITH OUR FACILITY IN
NIAGARA FALLS, NEW YORK TO
RECEIVE NEW ELECTRIC
ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN PRODUCTION
. WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING WITH
THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION
TO SECURE FUNDING TO KICK OFF.
THE PROJECT. UNTIL THEIR
FACILITY, WHICH INCLUDES THE
ADDITION OF FIVE MEGAWATT
ELECTROLYSIS WITH THE POTENTIAL
EXPANSION TO 15 MEGAWATTS THAT
WILL GENERATE APPROXIMATELY FROM
2 TO 7 METRIC TONS PER DAY OF
CLEAN HYDROGEN. LINDA IS ALSO
WORKING WITH THE STATE TO SECURE
FUNDING FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF
ENERGY FOR A REGIONAL HYDROGEN
HUB IN CALIFORNIA PLANS TO
CONTINUE EXPANDING THE ONTARIO
FACILITY IN THE NEAR FUTURE AND
IS WORKING WITH THE HOPE
COALITION. ARCHES TO SECURE THE
FUNDING TO DEVELOP A WORLD CLASS
GREEN HYDROGEN PRODUCTION IN THE
CAP FOR THE CALIFORNIA MARKET.
CALIFORNIA HAS PUT IN PLACE A
COMPLAINT INTENSIVE REGULATORY
FRAMEWORK THAT WILL CONTINUE TO
DRIVE ZERO EMISSION VEHICLE
ADOPTION IN THE NEAR FUTURE. TO
ACHIEVE THE STATE AMBITIOUS
CARBON EMISSIONS REDUCTION GOALS
PROGRAMS LIKE CALIFORNIA
RESOURCES BOARD, LOW CARBON FUEL
STANDARD AND FUNDING
OPPORTUNITIES FROM THE
CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION,
PROVIDING INCENTIVES TO BUILD
HYDROGEN REFUELING
INFRASTRUCTURE. THE RECENTLY
APPROVED ADVANCED CLEAN FLEET
AND HYBRID ZERO EMISSIONS TRUCK
AND BUS VOUCHER INCENTIVE
PROJECT WILL WORK IN TANDEM TO
DRIVE HEAVY DUTY MOBILITY'S ZERO
EMISSIONS VEHICLES WERE
UTILIZATION IN CRITICAL
FACILITIES LIKE BOARD AND THESE
ATTRIBUTIONS CENTERS ACROSS THE
STATE. HOWEVER. THE STATE HAS
NOT DEDICATED THE SAME LEVEL OF
ATTENTION TO HYDROGEN
PRODUCTION. THEY? THERE HAS BEEN
SOME CALIFORNIA COMMISSIONS
INITIATIVES TO FUND CLEAN
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION. BUT THE
AIRPORT HAS BEEN SPARS AND
SMALL. INVESTMENTS TO BUILD
CLEAN HYDROGEN PRODUCTION
FACILITIES ARE SIGNIFICANT OFTEN
IN THE ORDER OF HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND
DIFFICULT TO JUSTIFY DUE TO THE
NATION NATURE OF THIS MARKET.
FOR CALIFORNIA TO ACHIEVE
SUSTAINABLE HYDROGEN ECONOMY IS
SHOULD INCREASE ITS FOCUS IN
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION AND
ESTABLISHED NEW PROGRAMS TO HELP
HYDROGEN PRODUCERS MITIGATE NEW
PLANS INVESTMENT RISK. LINDA IS
GLAD TO HEAR THAT GOVERNOR.
NEWSOM RECENTLY DIRECTED GOBIES
TO DEVELOP A CALIFORNIA HYDROGEN
MARKET DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY. THE
INTERVIEW. THIS ANNOUNCEMENT AS
A POSITIVE STEP FORWARD FOR
HYDROGEN INDUSTRY AND WE SHARE
GOVERNANCE VISION. OF DEVELOPING
A MARKET FOR CLEAN HADRIAN TO
ACHIEVE CALIFORNIA CLIMATE
CALLS. WE HOPE THAT THESE
HYDROGEN MARKET DEVELOPMENT
STRATEGY WILL HAVE TO PROMOTE
PROMOTE THE WORK BEING DONE TO
DEVELOP THE ARCHES, HYDROGEN HUB
. WE SEE THIS AS AN ESSENTIAL
ELEMENT FOR THE STATE TO PROMOTE
CLEAN HYDROGEN PRODUCTION. WE
ALSO HOPE THE HYDROGEN MARKET
DEVELOPMENT STRATEGY INCLUDED
THE WORK NEEDED TO FINALIZE THE
HYDROGEN REFUELING
INFRASTRUCTURE IMPLEMENTATION
FOR THE HEAVY DUTY HYDROGEN
REFUELING STATIONS. WE AGAIN
VIEW THIS PROGRAM AS A VITAL
STEP TO KICKSTART THE HYDROGEN
INDUSTRY IN THE HEAVY DUTY
MOBILITY SECTOR. CALIFORNIA HAS
BEEN A FIRST MOVER IN PROMOTING
CLEAN HYDROGEN, AND YOU SHOULD
BE APPLAUDED FOR ALL THE EFFORTS
SO FAR. HOWEVER LINDA DOES HAVE
A FEW RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE
STATE TO CONTINUE THE MOMENTUM
IN CREATING A SUSTAINABLE
HYDROGEN ECONOMY. HOW DO YOU
NEED MORE SUPPORT SUPPORT FROM
THE C C C P U. C ANOTHER STATE
GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AS A VIABLE
OPTION FOR ANY NEWS. POLICIES IN
PLACE FOR SYRIA MISSION VEHICLES
, WHICH ARE SUPPOSED TO BE
NEUTRAL, REALLY GIVEN MET,
REALLY GIVE HYDROGEN, THE
BENEFICIAL REGULATORY AND
INCENTIVE SUPPORT THAT ELECTRIC
CHARGING GETS. WE ENCOURAGE THE
LEGISLATOR LEGISLATOR TO WORK
WITH THE HYDROGEN INDUSTRY FOR A
FEDERAL LOCATION OF RESOURCES TO
PROMOTE THE HYDROGEN ECONOMY,
INCLUDING CREATING GRANTS, TAX
REBATES AND OTHER INCENTIVES FOR
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION. WE NEED
POLICIES THAT PROMOTE HARIAN
PROMOTE PRODUCTION BASED ON
CARBON INTENSITY, AS HAS BEEN
SAID BY MY PREVIOUS PANELISTS,
COLLEAGUES. THE LEGISLATURE
SHOULD AVOID ANY POLICY PROPOSAL
THAT SAID, TOO, NARROWLY LIMIT
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION PATHWAYS
PROPOSALS THAT REQUIRE
ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN PRODUCTION
BASED SOLELY LEAD AND WIND AND
SOLAR, WE KNOW TRADABLE
RENEWABLE ENERGY CREDITS WILL
SIGNIFICANTLY IMPACT THE FUTURE
OF HYDROGEN PRODUCTION.
SUCCESSFUL HARRY AND ECONOMY
REQUIRES INFRASTRUCTURE
DEVELOPMENT, INCLUDING GREAT
INTERCONNECTION. A HUGE CONCERN
FOR HIDING IN FUTURE IS THE
DIFFICULTY AND UNCERTAINTY
AROUND PERMITTING AT THE LOCAL
LEVEL FOR NEW PROJECTS. WE ASKED
THE LEGISLATURE PUT IN PLACE AN
EXPEDITED PERMITTING PROCESS.
FOR CLEAN HARDY IN PRODUCTION,
DISTRIBUTION AND DISPENSING THIS
IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE
SUCCESS OF THE HYDROGEN HOP IN
CALIFORNIA. IF SELECTED BY THE
O. E THE OPPORTUNITY FOR FEDERAL
COST SHARE SHOULD NOT BE MEANS
AS THE INDUSTRY TRIED TO
NAVIGATE THROUGH THE UNCERTAIN
AND TIME CONSUMING PERMITTING
PROCESS. FINALLY WE ENCOURAGE
THE LEGISLATURE TO PROVIDE A
PATHWAY FOR A RENEWABLE POWER
TARIFF FOR CLEAN HYDROGEN
PRODUCTION. THE LARGEST COST
DRIVER FOR ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN
IS THE COST OF ELECTRICITY.
RENEWABLE POWER TARIFF WILL
CREATE A PATHWAY TO HELP
CALIFORNIA LOWER THE PRICE OF
HIRING TODAY. CALIFORNIA
RENEWABLE POWER PRICES ARE 23
TIMES. WHAT HIGHER THAT WHAT IS
REQUIRED TO PRODUCE COMPETITIVE
CLEAN HYDROGEN. AS I CONCLUDE MY
REMARKS. I AGAIN WANT TO THANK
THE COMMITTEE FOR THIS
OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY TODAY.
LINDI IS OPTIMISTIC ON THE
FUTURE POTENTIAL FOR HYDROGEN
AND ITS ROLE. AND IT DROVE. HE
WILL PLAY IN THE ENERGY
TRANSITION. THANK YOU FOR
HOLDING A HEARING ON THIS
IMPORTANT TOPIC, AND I'M HAPPY
TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE
COMMITTEE. THAT YOU HAVE. THANK
YOU. COMMITTEE MEMBERS. ANY
QUESTIONS? OKAY I WOULD LIKE TO
AGAIN. THANK YOU. BUT WE TALKED
ABOUT, UH, PERMITTING.
EXPEDITING PERMITS. UH, YOU TALK
ABOUT NOT TO LIMIT THE PATHWAY
FOR HYDROGEN, AND YOU ALSO
MENTIONED ABOUT MORE SUPPORT.
WHAT CAN WE DO TO GIVE YOU THE
SUPPORT THAT YOU AND ALL THE
OTHER INDUSTRIES THAT ARE
REPRESENTED HERE TODAY TO OPEN
UP THAT DOOR FOR HYDROGEN HERE
IN CALIFORNIA? WHAT ELSE CAN WE
DO? SENATOR I THINK A CRITICAL
AS AS AS MENTIONED ONE OF THE
CRITICAL ASPECTS THAT WE WILL
NEED HELP IN THE FUTURE IS A
TARIFF CREATED FOR CLEAN ORIGIN
PRODUCTION. ELECTRICITY COSTS
ARE IS ONE AS I SAID ONE OF THE
MAIN DRIVERS AS AS AS IT IS.
TODAY CALIFORNIA WILL HAVE A
DIFFICULT TIME COMPETING DUE TO
THE ELECTRICITY COST IS THE
SECOND POINT AND THAT YOU
MENTIONED ABOUT PERMITTING, IT
IS WELL KNOWN THAT PERMITTING IN
CALIFORNIA FOR NEW PROJECTS IS A
DIFFICULT TASK. SO WE ARE
LOOKING FOR SOME HELP IN FROM
THE LEGISLATURE TO EXPEDITE THE
PERMITTING PROCESS WHEN YOU KNOW
CLEAN WHEN THE RELATED TO CLEAN
OUT YOUR PROJECTS, I THINK THOSE
TWO THINGS WILL GO A LONG WAY
TOGETHER WITH SOME SORT OF
ADDITIONAL HELP FROM THE STATE
TO REDUCE THE RISK OF THIS
INVESTMENTS. AND YOU KNOW, I
THINK YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT.
WE'RE ALL WORKING IN THE FUTURE
MARKET. THAT IS THAT IS GOING TO
HAPPEN, BUT IT'S NOT THERE YET,
BUT IN ORDER TO BE THERE, WE
WILL NEED TO HAVE THE HYDROGEN
AVAILABLE. SO THESE TRUCKS AND
THESE MOBILITY AND THIS POWER
PLANTS CAN USE THE HYDROGEN AND
THOSE PLANS. WE NEED TO START
BUILDING TODAY. AND THERE IS A
BIG RISK, YOU KNOW, TO PUT THIS
IN BIG INVESTMENTS IN PLACE WHEN
THE MARKET DOESN'T EXIST, SO
SOME SORT OF HELP ON THE STATE
TO HELP US NAVIGATE THOSE FREEZE
WILL WILL BE VERY USEFUL. OKAY
WE HAVE NO OTHER QUESTIONS OR
COMMENTS. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH
FOR COMING WITH US TODAY, AND WE
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. HMM. AND
NOW NEXT WILL BE, UH, LORRAINE
BASKETS. A BASKET. UH, IF SHE
CAN COME UP. AND SHE'S DOING
THAT. I WILL READ, IT'LL BIT
ARRANGING EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF
ADVANCED CLEAN HYDROGEN AND AIR
PRODUCTS AND CHEMICALS. MARINE
IS AN INDUSTRY LEADER. WITH MORE
THAN 25 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN
THE ENERGY, ENVIRONMENTAL
SECTORS. SHE HOLDS A BACHELOR'S
DEGREE IN POLITICAL SCIENCE FROM
CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY,
SACRAMENTO, AND SHE IS A
GRADUATE FROM MIKE GEORGE SCHOOL
OF LAW. SHE HAS BEEN A MEMBER OF
THE CALIFORNIA STATE BAR 1995.
AND WE THANK THANK YOU, LAUREEN
FOR BEING HERE TODAY. AND IF
YOU'RE READY TO GO. THANK YOU
FOR THAT. THANK YOU FOR THE
PRESENTATION. AND YOU? I
APPRECIATE IT BECAUSE MY EYES
AREN'T AS GOOD AS IT USED TO BE.
YEAH WE'RE TRYING TO SEE IT FROM
HERE. MAKE SOME COFFEE. GO AHEAD
. THANK YOU MEMBERS. THANK YOU.
TO PRESENT TO YOU. I AM LORRAINE
PASCALE AND THE EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF ADVANCED CLEAN
HYDROGEN FOR AIR PRODUCTS. I'M
ALSO THE CO CHAIR OF THE
PRODUCTION, STORAGE AND
DISTRIBUTION WORKING GROUP FOR
ARCHES AND WE WERE ONE OF THE
FIRST COMPANIES TO SUPPORT THE
DEVELOPMENT OF ARCHES, AND WE'RE
VERY PLEASED TO BE PARTICIPATING
IN THE LEADERSHIP CAPACITY. AND
WE'RE GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE WORK
THAT ADAM AND HIS COLLEAGUES
HAVE DONE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA AND THE REST OF THE
ARCHES TEAM. UM AND THANK YOU
FOR INTRODUCING ME, ESPECIALLY
MY BAR ENTRY. THINK IT, UH I WAS
10 WHEN THAT HAPPENED. I'D LIKE
TO TELL YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
AIR PRODUCTS AS TO GIVE YOU SOME
CONTEXT. AIR PRODUCTS IS THE
LARGEST HYDROGEN PRODUCER.
AS YEARS. HYDROGEN. PRODUCTION
AND HYDROGEN SERVICE. THERE'S
SEVEN PRODUCTION FOR. AND EIGHT.
MILES. OF INDUSTRY. GASP. SEVEN
OF THOSE PIPELINES ARE DEDICATED
TO HYDROGEN. MOST OF THOSE
PIPELINES ARE IN THE UNITED
STATES, INCLUDING IN CALIFORNIA.
WE ARE THE ONLY HYDROGEN
PIPELINE OPERATOR IN THE STATE
OF CALIFORNIA, AND WE'VE BEEN
DOING SO FOR THREE DECADES. I
WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THE INVESTMENTS AND THIS
IS WHERE I MIGHT DEVIATE A
LITTLE BIT. SO I WANT TO
APOLOGIZE AHEAD OF TIME BECAUSE
I DO APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS
THAT WERE SHARED BY THE
COMMITTEE WITH RESPECT TO THE
COLORS WITH GREEN AND BLUE. I DO
AGREE WITH WITH THE PREVIOUS
STATEMENTS OF THE PRESENTERS
THAT HAVING A CARBON INTENSITY
METRIC IS VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE
YOU WON'T PICK TECHNOLOGY
WINNERS AND LOSERS, BUT BECAUSE
HYDROGEN LIKE MANY FUELS IS A
GLOBAL COMMODITY. AND BECAUSE IT
WILL BE TRADED. IT IS TRADED NOW
AND WILL BE TRADED IN THE FUTURE
. WITH WITHIN THAT GLOBAL
ECONOMY, THERE WILL BE, UM
ENVIRONMENTAL ATTRIBUTES AND
ENVIRONMENT REQUIREMENTS AT A
GLOBAL LEVEL THAT WILL DRIVE A
LOT OF THE HYDROGEN PRODUCTION.
AND SO AS WE LOOK AT THE
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION IN THE
FUTURE AND SOME OF THE
INVESTMENTS AT AIR PRODUCTS. WE
HAVE ABOUT $15 BILLION OF
ANNOUNCED PROJECTS BEFORE 2027
ABOUT 6. BILLION OF THOSE ARE
DEDICATED TO BE IN CALIFORNIA OR
SERVE CALIFORNIA AND THAT'S PART
OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE SENATOR
ARCHULETTA THAT YOU WERE ASKING
ABOUT. WE ARE VERY COMMITTED TO
THAT. THE. THE FEDERAL
OPPORTUNITY AT THE U. S GOV.
WHICH WAS ARCHES PURSUING WHILE
IT MAY BE AROUND A BILLION
DOLLARS IF WE SUCCESSFULLY
RECEIVED THAT, AS AS A STATE AND
A COLLECTION OF HYDROGEN
CONTRIBUTORS. IT'S CRITICAL
BECAUSE IT OPENS UP
OPPORTUNITIES AND IT UNLOCKS
OTHER INVESTMENTS. WE'RE GOING
TO OVERMATCH AS A COMPANY IF WE
ARE THE BENEFIT OF THAT, AND
THERE ARE OTHER COMPANIES WHO
WILL OVERMATCH. YOU'LL ALSO SEE
CONTRIBUTIONS FOR THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA. SO IF YOU LOOK AT
WHAT WE'RE DOING BETWEEN NOW AND
2027, WE HAVE THE WORLD'S
LARGEST GREEN HYDROGEN
PRODUCTION FACILITY AND ITS
PURPOSE BUILT SOLAR AND WIND. WE
HAVE THE LARGEST US HYDROGEN
ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN PRODUCTION
FACILITY IN TEXAS, AND IT'S
PURPOSE BUILT SOLAR AND WIND. WE
HAVE THE LARGEST ELECTROLYTIC
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION FACILITY
UNDERWAY IN THE NORTHEAST IN NEW
YORK, AND THAT'S USING RENEWABLE
ENERGY AND WE HAVE A SMALL
FACILITY IN ARIZONA. WE ALSO
HAVE A FACILITY. EXCUSE ME ZERO
LARGEST NET ZERO. FACILITY IN
CANADA. THIS UNDERDEVELOPMENT
THAT'S BLUE HYDROGEN. AND
LOUISIANA, WHICH IS CARBON
CAPTURE, AND WE HAVE ONE
FACILITY THAT WE ARE
PARTICULARLY EXCITED ABOUT. IT'S
THE CONVERSION OF, UH, 65 ACRE
REFINERY IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY.
IN THE FRONT LINE COMMUNITY. WE
WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE
BUILDING TRADES AND REBUILT THAT
REFINING REFINERY TO A
SUSTAINABLE AVIATION FUEL
FACILITY THAT USES BIOGENIC
FEEDSTOCK AND FEEDS AIRLINES IN
CALIFORNIA. AND WE'RE VERY. UM
ENTHUSIASTIC. I'LL GET TO THIS
LATER. BUT WE'RE VERY
ENTHUSIASTIC WITH THE POLICIES
THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE BY
THIS LEGISLATURE AND BY
EXECUTIVE ORDER AND BY THE
AGENCIES TO ENABLE A ROBUST
HYDROGEN MARKET, ESPECIALLY IN
ADVANCED CLEAN HYDROGEN MARKET
AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO FINE
TUNING THOSE, ESPECIALLY AROUND
THE PERMITTING, UM, AREAS IN THE
FUTURE. IF YOU LOOK AT AS BEFORE
WE JUMP INTO SOME OF THE MARKET
COMMENTS THAT I'D LIKE TO SHARE
WITH YOU. I DO WANT TO TALK
ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF HYDROGEN
SAFETY AND OVERSIGHT. THERE WAS
A QUESTION BEFORE BY SENATOR
ALLEN ABOUT PIPELINES AS THE
ONLY HYDROGEN PIPELINE OWNER AND
OPERATE IN CALIFORNIA AND HAVING
700 MILES IN THE US, WE'RE VERY
FAMILIAR WITH HOW TO ENGINEER
DESIGN, BUILD AND DEVELOP
PAGEANT AND PIPELINES TO PREVENT
SOME OF THE OPERATIONAL ISSUES
THAT HE MENTIONED THAT HE
MENTIONED AND WE'RE HAPPY TO
FOLLOW UP ON SOME OF THIS. MINAL
ISSUES, TOO. WE'RE WORKING WITH
SOME OF THE LEADING SCIENTISTS
ON THOSE IN THE US TO ADDRESS
THEM. HYDROGEN IS WELL REGULATED
HYDROGEN. HIS REGULATED FOR
SAFETY AND HAS BEEN THE
THOUSANDS OF MILES OF PIPELINES
IN THE US ARE OVERSEEN BY THE
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND
FEMSA, AND THERE ARE, UM AS
INDUSTRY LEADERS AND OTHER
COMPANIES LIKE LINDY, HER
INDUSTRY LEADERS IN THIS AREA
AND AIR LOCKHEED. WE'RE VERY
COMFORTABLE WITH THE SAFETY
PROTOCOLS AND LEADS SOME OF THE
DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE PROTOCOLS.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE ENERGY
TRANSITION, AND YOU THINK ABOUT
CALIFORNIA AND AS A GLOBAL
COMPANY, WE WORK WITH A LOT OF
DIFFERENT GOVERNMENTS ALL OVER
THE WORLD IN THE U. S IN EUROPE
AND ASIA AND CALIFORNIA
CONTINUES TO LEAD. CALIFORNIA IS
THE FOURTH LARGEST ECONOMY AND
CALIFORNIA IS ONE OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT FUTURE HYDROGEN
ECONOMIES FOR ALL COMPANIES,
ESPECIALLY GLOBAL COMPANIES, AND
THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT IT IS
IT'S IMPORTANT THE POLICY
PRINCIPLES THAT CALIFORNIA HAS
HELD DEAR AND ITS DEVELOPMENT OF
THE GREEN ECONOMY FOR THE LAST
20 YEARS, INCLUDING WITH OUR THE
L. C. F S AND WITH THE RPS, AND
WITH THE STORAGE POLICIES, IT'S
IMPORTANT TO MAINTAIN A LEVEL
PLAYING FIELD THAT WILL BE
ESSENTIAL TO THE HYDROGEN MARKET
GOING FORWARD FOR ALL
PARTICIPANTS. WHETHER THE LARGE
OR SMALL, IT'S IMPORTANT TO
REMAIN TECHNOLOGY AGNOSTIC.
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS
MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY BY THIS
COMMITTEE AND SOME OF THE, UM
PRESENTERS. IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
THE STATE DRIVES REAL,
MEASURABLE AND IMMEDIATE
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSION
REDUCTIONS. UM IT'S ALSO
IMPORTANT TO ADVANCE THE
EXISTING THIRD PARTY COMPETITIVE
HYDROGEN MARKET. CALIFORNIA I
SAY THIS A LOT WHEN I SPEAK. AH
BUT AS AS WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON
CALIFORNIA MARKET POLICY IN
CALIFORNIA FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS
WHAT SOME FOLKS WHO DON'T
REALIZE IS CALIFORNIA'S SECOND
LARGEST CONSUMER OF HYDROGEN
OUTSIDE OF TEXAS. WE'VE HAD A
HYDROGEN MARKET IN CALIFORNIA
FOR DECADES, AND IT'S ROBUST AND
IT WORKS. WHAT WE'RE SEEING ARE
EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES LIKE
ELECTROLYSIS, AND WHAT WE'RE
SEEING ARE EMERGING MARKETS
AROUND THE TRANSPORTATION
MARKET, WHICH ARE AREAS THAT
COULD USE ADDITIONAL HELP, AND I
DO AGREE WITH LAD HAVING MORE.
MARKET SIGNALS OR PROGRAMS OR
INCENTIVES FOR PRODUCTION IS
IMPORTANT AND WILL HELP THE
ADVANCEMENT OF THE
INFRASTRUCTURE FOR COMPANIES
LIKE OURS AND OTHER COMPANIES
THAT PARTICIPATE, ESPECIALLY IN
ARCHES. UM THE OTHER THING I'D
ASK THIS COMMITTEE TO THINK
ABOUT IS THE GLOBAL
HARMONIZATION OF VERIFY
VERIFIABLE CLEAN HYDROGEN
BECAUSE IT IS A GLOBAL COMMODITY
BECAUSE WE'RE POSITIONING
CALIFORNIA OR WORKING HARD TO
POSITION, CALIFORNIA. TO BE ONE
OF THOSE GLOBAL LEADERS. WE WILL
HAVE TO PRODUCE HYDROGEN THAT
WILL BE COMPETITIVE IN THE
GLOBAL MARKETPLACE, AND THERE
ARE UM UM, UH, PROGRAMS PLAYING
OUT IN GERMANY THEIR PROGRAMS
ACROSS THE U. S THAT ARE GOING
TO HAVE ENVIRONMENTAL ATTRIBUTE.
REQUIREMENTS FOR HYDROGEN, AND I
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT AS WE GO
FORWARD TO THINK ABOUT THAT. AND
I MIGHT DEVIATE A LITTLE BIT
SOME OF THE PREVIOUS SPEAKERS AT
RISK OF OFFENDING THEM, BUT WHAT
I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT IS IF
WE LOOK AT HYDROGEN PRODUCTION,
AND WE LOOK AT TAX INCENTIVES
AND FINANCIAL SENATE AND REWARDS
FOR THAT HYDROGEN PRODUCTION, WE
DO WANT TO THINK ABOUT UM,
DRIVING, REAL MEASURABLE AND
IMMEDIATE GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSION REDUCTIONS BECAUSE THE
GOAL OF INVESTING IN ADVANCED
CLEAN HYDROGEN AND BUILDING OUT
THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE VALUE
CHAIN, WHETHER IT'S PRODUCTION
OR STORAGE OR DELIVERY, OR
DISPENSING OR OTHER END USES AND
HARD TO ABATE SECTORS LIKE HEAVY
INDUSTRY. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE'RE PRODUCING IT AND
USING IT TO MEET OUR MID CENTURY
DECARBONIZATION GOALS. WE DON'T
WANT TO INADVERTENTLY CREATE
ADDITIONAL EMISSIONS. AND SO
IT'S IMPORTANT AS WE THINK ABOUT
THIS, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE HAVE,
UM TAX CREDITS LIKE TO PTC TO
DRIVE TOWARDS THOSE GOALS. I DO
AGREE THAT WITH ELECTROLYSIS UH
, WE HAVE TO HAVE A HIGH
REALIZATION FACTOR FOR THE
ELECTROLYZER BECAUSE THE CAPITAL
COSTS ARE HIGH AND FOR ONLY
USING IT 23% OF THE TIME. IT'S
JUST GOING TO BE THAT MUCH MORE
EXPENSIVE, SO IF THERE IS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A HIGHER
UTILIZATION OF THAT NEW
EQUIPMENT, WE'RE GOING TO DROWN
THE DRIVE DOWN THE COST FOR END
USERS AND CONSUMERS, BUT AS
WE'RE DOING THAT WE HAVE TO BE
MINDFUL OF THE GRANT THAT THE
GOAL, WHICH IS A GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSION REDUCTIONS AND AIR
QUALITY AND OTHER EMISSION
REDUCTIONS THAT WILL BENEFIT
FROM THESE NEW INVESTMENTS. I
WANTED TO DIVE INTO INTACT A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT CALIFORNIA'S
MARKET POLICIES AND HOW YOU'RE
ENABLING. THE ENERGY TRANSITION
AND HOW YOU'RE ENABLING CLEAN
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION, DELIVERY
AND END USE THIS. I LOVE THIS
SLIDE. I USE THIS SLIDE ALL THE
TIME BECAUSE IT REMINDS ME OF
THE LEADERSHIP OF CALIFORNIA AND
EVERYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED OVER
THE LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS TO HELP
, UM AND DRIVE INVESTMENTS IN
CLEAN AND GREEN HYDROGEN AND
ADVANCED CLEAN HYDROGEN. THIS
LIST HAS IS THE LIST THAT YOU
KNOW VERY WELL. ACROSS THE
ECONOMY FROM ENERGY HOW THE
POWER SECTOR TO THE
TRANSPORTATION. TO MARKET
TRANSITION. THERE ARE A NUMBER
OF IMPORTANT PROGRAMS ARE IN
PLACE THAT CAN BE BUILT UPON AND
IF YOU LOOK AT THE POWER SECTOR
WE HAVE SP 100, SB 4, 23 AND 10
20. IF WE THINK ABOUT THAT LAST
40% OR IF WE THINK ABOUT
OPPORTUNITIES THAT THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA HAS LIKE THE ONES
THROUGH COOLING POLICY THAT'S
GOING TO FORCE THE RETIREMENT OF
A LOT OF THOSE BASIC FACILITIES.
THOSE ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR, UM
ADVANCED CLEAN HYDROGEN
DEPLOYMENT. IF WE THINK ABOUT
TRANSPORTATION, IT WAS MENTIONED
BEFORE WE ALSO AGREE AND BELIEVE
THAT THE PORTS ARE GROUND ZERO.
WE THE PORTA VELL, A ONE OF OUR
PARTNERS AT THE POINT OF L. A
PORT OF L A. TOLD ME A COUPLE OF
MONTHS AGO. 60% OF OUR THE
EMISSIONS IN THE AIR QUALITY
IMPACTS TO OUR COMMUNITIES COME
FROM THE PORTS. SO IF WE CAN DE
CARBONIZED ALL THOSE CARGO
HANDLERS IF WE CAN WE HAVE A
WORK WITH A OH AM FOR A FUEL
CELL SEMI TRUCK THAT SHOULD BE
COMING SOON. IF WE CAN DEPLOY
THESE VEHICLES IF WE CAN DE
CARBONIZED GOODS MOVEMENT AND
CREATE THEIR QUALITY
IMPROVEMENTS AROUND THE PORTS,
THAT'S THE QUICKEST AND ONE OF
THE MOST IMPACTFUL IMPROVEMENTS
THAT WE CAN DO AND WE HAVE
PROGRAMS. WE HAVE THE PORTS
DECARBONIZATION PROGRAMS. WE
HAVE LEGISLATION AROUND THAT,
AND WE HAVE THE AIRBORNE LOOKING
AT THAT THE MARKET TRANSITIONS
THAT WE THINK ARE MEANINGFUL
RIGHT NOW ARE BUILDING ON SOME
OF THE LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN
PASSED BUILDING ON THE
PROMULGATION PROMULGATION OF
REGULATIONS AROUND THAT
LEGISLATION AND BUILDING ON THE
SYSTEMS PLAN THAT ADAM DISCUSSED
EARLIER AROUND ARCHES. THERE'S
BEEN A LOT OF GOOD WORK IN A
SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME TO LOOK AT
THE SYSTEM, LOOK AT PRODUCTION
AND USES AND REALLY HELPED
TRANSFORM AND POSITION THE STATE
OF CALIFORNIA TO BE A LEADER. I
WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT. I HAD
MENTIONED THIS EARLIER ABOUT THE
ENERGY TRANSITION IS GLOBAL AND
THE CURRENT STATE OF OUR FOSSIL
FUEL DEPENDENCE. IF YOU GO TO
THE ENERGY COMMISSION WEBSITE,
AND YOU JUST TYPE IN, YOU KNOW
HOW MUCH DO WE IMPORT? YOU CAN
SEE HOW MUCH WE IMPORT AND HOW
DEPENDENT WE ARE ON CRUDE OIL
AND HOW MUCH NATURAL GAS WE
IMPORT. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
ADVANCED CLEAN HYDROGEN WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HARD TO ABATE
SECTORS. HEAVY TRANSPORTATION
HEAVY DUTY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
REPLACING CRUDE OIL, AND WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT REPLACING NATURAL
GAS. AND SO IT'S AS CALIFORNIA
POSITIONS ITSELF. WE RECOGNIZE
THAT SOME OF THIS WILL BE
EXPORTED. SOME OF THIS WILL BE
IMPORTED AND THE FRAMEWORK FOR
THE MARKET THAT WE SET UP FOR
THIS FUTURE COMMODITY IS
IMPORTANT IN THAT CONTEXT. ONE
OF THE THINGS I'D ALSO LIKE TO
MENTION IS, AS WE THINK ABOUT
HYDROGEN AT AIR PRODUCTS,
ESPECIALLY WHEN WE APPROACH THE
WORLD ENERGY, THE SUSTAINABLE
AVIATION FIELD FACILITY AND WE
THINK ABOUT ALL THE
INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE PLAN TO
DEVELOP. IN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA OVER THE NEXT THREE
TO 23 TO 7 YEARS. WE THINK ABOUT
IT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE
BUILDING TRADES WITH A
PARTNERSHIP WITH THEM. WE
REALIZED THAT A LOT OF THE JOBS
WE'RE GOING TO CREATE WITH OUR
UP TO 6 BILLION FROM CALIFORNIA
ARE GOING TO BE THE SAME JOBS
THAT ARE REFINERIES. SO WE'VE
STARTED A PROJECT WITH THEM VERY
EARLY TO IDENTIFY THE TRADES AND
THE NETWORK OF TRAINING
FACILITIES THAT THEY HAVE ACROSS
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. TO GET
A HEAD START TO, UM, BRING THOSE
SKILLS FROM OTHER PARTS OF THE
WORLD, OTHER PARTS OF THE
COUNTRY TO HELP BUILD OUT THE
WORKFORCE THAT WE KNOW THAT
WE'RE GOING TO NEED IN THE NEXT
FEW YEARS. I'M JUST GOING TO
LEAVE YOU WITH THIS LAST SLIDE.
I'M TRYING TO GO FAST, BECAUSE I
KNOW YOU HAVE A FEW SPEAKERS
BEHIND ME. WE SEE CALIFORNIA AS
AN IMPORTANT PARTNER AS A GLOBAL
COMPANY, AND WE RELY ON
CALIFORNIA'S LEADERSHIP TO DRIVE
THE ENERGY TRANSITION. AND AS I
HAD MENTIONED BEFORE, YOU'RE
BUILDING ON THE LEGACY OF
CLIMATE LEADERSHIP, AND YOU CAN
LEVERAGE SOME KEY MILESTONES
THAT ARE COMING UP THE O D. C
TRANSITION THE L A OLYMPICS THAT
ARE COMING UP OR HYDROGEN CAN
SHINE AND SHOW A ZERO CARBON
SOLUTION. ZERO MISSION FUEL
OPPORTUNITIES WITH SHIPS. THERE
ARE SHIPPING LINES LOOKING AT
HYDROGEN AND ITS DERIVATIVES AS
FUEL REPLACEMENT SPORT
DECARBONIZATION THAT AIRLINES
THAT ARE LOOKING AT HYDROGEN IS
. ZERO CARBON OPTIONS. UM AGAIN
, AND OTHER SPEAKERS HAVE SAID
THAT WE DO THINK IT'S AN ALL OF
THE ABOVE STRATEGY AND WE SHOULD
BE USING HYDROGEN AND HEAVY
DUTY. HEAVY DUTY TRANSPORTATION
AND HEAVY INDUSTRY. UM WE WOULD
LIKE TO ENCOURAGE THIS COMMITTEE
TO CONSIDER ACTIONS IN ADDITION
TO PERMITTING REFORM TO REWARD
EARLY ACTION IN EARLY
INVESTMENTS, LIKE A LOT OF US
ARE DOING WITHIN THE ARCHES,
CONTEXT, AND WE DO APPRECIATE
THE OPPORTUNITY TO COLLABORATE
WITH YOU. AND ALL THIS, THE
LOCAL PARTNERS SO HAPPY TO
ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. AND
COMMUNITY MEMBERS. YES, SENATOR.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR CHAIRMAN
AND ALSO WANT TO THANK THE. FOR
THANK, MISS PLASTIC FOR THE
PRESENTATION. AND FOR THE, UM,
ASSISTANCE IN BEING ABLE TO
WRITE RIGHT ON ON IT. I I'M
REALLY GLAD TO HEAR, UM. WELL,
I'M GLAD TO HEAR THE ISSUE ABOUT
PIPELINE BECAUSE IT COMES UP IN
EVERY CONVERSATION. AND, UM, THE
FACT THAT WE ALREADY HAVE, UM
THEY'VE BEEN PERMITTED. THEY'VE
BEEN IN USE AND THAT, UM, THAT'S
VERY HOPEFUL THAT AT LEAST BE
ABLE TO SAY THAT NOW WITH SOME
DEGREE OF CERTAINTY TO PEOPLE
WHO ARE CONCERNED, THEY'RE
THEY'RE VALID CONCERNS, BUT I
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE REAL REALITY
IS. BUT I ALSO WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR THE INFORMATION IN REGARDS
TO THE RETRAINING IN THE TRADE
SECTOR. THAT'S ONE OF THE ONE OF
THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE IN THE
CENTRAL VALLEY IS THAT IT'S BEEN
A BIG OIL PRODUCING PART OF THE
STATE. AND IF WE'RE GONNA
TRANSITION AWAY FROM THE USE OF
FOSSIL FUELS, THERE HAVE TO BE
JOBS REPLACEMENT JOBS. AND, UM
AND THAT'S REALLY WHY HYDROGEN
AND CARBON CAPTURE, AND, UM
BIOMASS FACILITIES ARE SO
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO OUR
LOCAL ECONOMY. THOSE
OPPORTUNITIES PROVIDE US TO DO
THAT THAT TRANSITION AND SO THE
FACT THAT THAT YOU'VE RECOGNIZED
AND CAN DO THE RETRAINING IN
HOUSE IS GOING TO BE REALLY,
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. WE'RE
LOOKING FORWARD TO THESE KINDS
OF PROJECTS BEING IN IN OUR
REGION AND PROVIDING NEW JOBS
FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR
THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE
ECONOMICALLY SUCCESSFUL IN AND
THE JOBS IN THE IN THE FOSSIL
FUEL INDUSTRY PAY GOOD SALARIES
FOR PEOPLE, SO I REALLY
APPRECIATE THAT AS WELL. AND SO
I THANK YOU FOR YOUR
PRESENTATION HAS BEEN VERY
HELPFUL, AND NOW WE KNOW WHERE
TO GO IN TERMS OF FOR THE
PRACTICAL RESPONSES TO SOME OF
THE CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN
RAISED IN THE R IN OUR
DISCUSSIONS HERE BECAUSE WE HAVE
BEEN TALKING ABOUT PERMITTING
REFORM AND EARLY INVESTMENTS,
BUT THERE'S JUST A LOT OF
RESISTANCE, FRANKLY TO, UM TO
LETTING HYDROGEN BE PART OF THE
PLAYER AT THE TABLE WHEN WE TALK
ABOUT RENEWABLE ENERGY, SO THANK
YOU WERE FINDING WE BECAUSE OF
THAT RESISTANCE, WE MOVED INTO
SOME OF THE COMMUNITIES WHERE
WE'RE MAKING INVESTMENTS AND
WORKING WITH THE BUILDING TRADES
AND WE'RE FINDING VERY LITTLE
RESISTANCE. THEY'RE EMBRACING
THE, UM THE POTENTIAL FOR AIR
QUALITY BENEFITS AND THEY'RE
EMBRACING THE JOBS POTENTIAL,
BUT BUT SEE THAT YOUR POINT IS
REALLY WELL. IS REALLY IMPORTANT
AS WELL TAKEN, UM, WE HAVE TO
GET OUT AND EDUCATE THE
COMMUNITY. AND ONCE THEY HEAR
ABOUT THE BENEFITS, THEN THERE'S
WIDESPREAD SUPPORT. BUT IN THE
ABSENCE OF THAT, IT'S EASY TO,
UM. CAPITALIZE ON THE FAIR
PIPELINES. UM EXPLOSIONS, GAS?
THAT'S YOU KNOW, DANGEROUS, ALL
OF THAT KIND OF STUFF. AND SO WE
I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY
IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE PEOPLE
THAT CAN GO OUT AND SPEAK AT THE
COMMUNITY LEVEL ABOUT WHAT THE
BENEFITS ARE. BUT THE RISKS ARE
ITS INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT. BUT
HERE'S THE BENEFITS THAT COME TO
THE COMMUNITY AS WELL. SO I
THANK YOU FOR THAT. VERY
WELCOME. AND IT WOULD. I SHOULD
MENTION THAT CHRIS HANNON IN THE
BUILDING TRADES HAS BEEN AN
INVALUABLE PARTNER WORKED VERY
CLOSELY. IT'S GREAT WHEN ELSE.
UH I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU.
YOU REALLY OPENED UP THE DOOR
BECAUSE YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, AIR
PRODUCTS IS SHOWING THE WAY. YOU
KNOW WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE
PIPELINES THAT YOU HAVE BEEN AT
THE PLANT HAVE SEEN IT. UM THE
FACT THAT YOU'RE PARTNERING WITH
THE TRADE UNIONS THAT YOU'RE
OPENING YOUR DOORS. TWO FOR
INNOVATION, BUT THE TEACH
TRAINING GUIDE. SOME OF THE
PEOPLE THAT NEED TO COME IN TO
THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY IS SO
IMPORTANT. YOU KNOW, I THINK WE
HAVE TO SAY FEAR NOT HYDROGEN IS
COMING. IT'S SAFE. IT'S DOABLE.
AND I THINK THAT WITH THE
KNOWLEDGE YOU GIVE US IT WILL
MAKE US FEEL STRONGER. AS A
STATE. TO INVEST IN PARTICIPATE
IN THE HYDROGEN FUTURE. AND I
WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND
I WANT ONE LAST QUESTION WHEN
YOU MENTIONED ABOUT THE PORCH.
AND SHOULD WE BE FOCUSING ON
THAT? AS WE DO FEEL SO BATTERY
CARS SHOULD. WHERE SHOULD WE GO
FIRST TO OPEN THAT DOOR? WELL UM
I WOULD LOVE TO SAY, LET'S DO IT
ALL AT ONCE, UM. WE DON'T THINK
ABOUT TRANSPORTATION AS A HARD
TO ABATE SECTOR, BUT IT'S A HARD
TO ABATE SECTOR HEAVY DUTY
TRANSPORTATION AND GOODS
MOVEMENT COULD CONTRIBUTE
SIGNIFICANTLY TO THE AIR IMPACTS
IN AND AROUND THE PORTS. AND THE
PORTS ARE FRONTLINE COMMUNITIES.
THEIR IMPACT THERE ARE YOU KNOW
WHERE THEY ARE THERE AROUND THE
7 10, THEIR THEIR THEIR
COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE BEEN
IMPACTED FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
THERE IS A SYNERGY TO DOING BOTH
AT THE SAME TIME AND MY ARCHES
COLLEAGUE ADAM CAN TALK ABOUT
IT. HE'S DONE SUCH WONDERFUL
WORK ON THE SYSTEMS ANALYSIS,
BUT BECAUSE WITHIN HIS SYSTEMS
ANALYSIS, AND WHAT WE HAVE
AGREED TO IS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE
THE PRODUCTION CAPACITY YOU AND
A RELIABLE SUPPLY OF HYDROGEN.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE FEELING
STATION CAPACITY, WHICH THE
STATE IS ON ITS WAY TO GET TO
200. AND ART THE US DO. WE WILL
HELP ALONG WITH THE AND YOU HAVE
TO HAVE THE VEHICLES AND WE
SHOULD ALLOW FOR THE LIGHT DUTY
EXPANSION, OF COURSE, BECAUSE,
UM, NOT EVERYBODY HAS THE OPTION
FOR CHARGING, ESPECIALLY WITH L.
A COUNTY WENT 40% OF THE
RESIDENTS ARE IN MULTIFAMILY
HOUSING. AND IF YOU HAVE THE
PRODUCTION CAPACITY, A RELIABLE
SUPPLY OF HYDROGEN, THE STATIONS
AND THE VEHICLES, ESPECIALLY
MULTIMODAL STATIONS THAT
CONSERVE HEAVY DUTY, MEDIUM AND
LIGHT DUTY. YOU'RE GOING TO
START TO SEE THE MOST IMMEDIATE
BENEFITS AND THE BIGGEST IMPACT
TO IMPROVE HEALTH, THE AIR
QUALITY AND THE HEALTH BENEFITS
AND WITH A PRODUCTION CAPACITY,
UM AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND
THE PRODUCTION CAPACITY, YOU'RE
GOING TO SEE THOSE JOBS THAT ARE
MORE LIKE WHAT WE SEE THE CAREER
JOBS, THE HOUSEHOLD JOBS,
SKILLED JOBS. AND SO I FEEL LIKE
WE SHOULD COME TOGETHER AS
PARTNERS, WHETHER IT'S INDUSTRY
OR THE STATE OR THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT TO DRIVE THOSE
INVESTMENTS, SO WE HAVE THE
ENTIRE VALUE SHAME VALUE CHAIN
BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO DELIVER
THE ENVIRONMENTAL, ECONOMIC AND
HEALTH BENEFITS WE WANT, BUT
IT'S ALSO GOING TO POSITION THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA GLOBALLY FOR
THIS INTERNATIONAL COMMODITY.
PRETTY GOOD. THANK YOU ONCE
AGAIN FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. UM
IT WAS WELL SAID THANK YOU. AND
NOW, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WILL
BRING UP NIELSEN EVAN. NEIL, IF
YOU'LL COME UP. AND NEIL IS THE
VICE PRESIDENT OF CLEAN ENERGY
INNOVATIONS IN THE CHIEF CLEAN
FUELS OFFICER WITH THE SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY.
OTHERWISE KNOWN AS SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA GAS. AH MR LEVON
OVERSEES THE GAS COMPANY,
COMPREHENSIVE PORTFOLIO OF CLEAN
ENERGY STRATEGIES, INNOVATIONS
PROJECTS TO SUPPORT THE
UTILITIES GOALS AS A LONG TERM
LEADER OF ENABLING CALIFORNIA.
AND CALIFORNIA'S CLEAN ENERGY
FUTURE. MR KNAVEN FOCUS INCLUDES
RENEWABLE NATURAL GAS, HYDROGEN
AND FUEL CELLS, AND MR NAVIN
HOLDS A BACHELOR'S DEGREE IN
CHEMICAL ENGINEERING FROM MCGILL
UNIVERSITY IN MONTREAL. AND EVEN
YOU'VE GOT THE FLOOR AND WELCOME
. THANK YOU, SENATORS AND THANK
YOU. CHAIR ARTICLE THAT HAS THE
PLEASURE TO BE HERE TODAY. I
THINK THERE'S A CERTAIN BEAUTY
AND BREVITY, SO I'LL TRY TO KEEP
IT TRYING TO KEEP IT SHORT. SO
CALLED GAS IS 100 AND 50 YEAR
OLD COMPANY ALMOST AS OLD AS THE
STATE ITSELF. WE SERVE 21
MILLION PEOPLE WERE THE LARGEST
NATURAL GAS UTILITY IN THE
WESTERN HEMISPHERE. AND
IMPORTANTLY, WE DO THAT WORK
WITH THE SUPPORT OF OUR 4000
PLUS UNION MEMBERS. UH HUH. AND
THE SUPPORT OF A DIVERSE SET OF
SUPPLIERS, DIVERSE SUPPLIERS,
WOMEN AND MINORITY ON
BUSINESSES. TO THE TUNE OF ABOUT
A BILLION DOLLARS INVESTED EVERY
YEAR IN THE ENERGY
INFRASTRUCTURE OF CALIFORNIA.
OUR MISSION AS A COMPANY IS TO
BE THE CLEANEST, SAFEST AND MOST
INNOVATIVE ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE
COMPANY IN AMERICA. AND WE ARE
MAKING VERY DELIBERATE
INVESTMENTS IN SHAPING
CALIFORNIA'S ENERGY FUTURE. BY
INVESTING IN HYDROGEN. RENEWABLE
NATURAL GAS, FUEL CELL'S
ELECTRICAL VEHICLE
INFRASTRUCTURE AND CARBON
CAPTURE AND STORAGE. THE NATION
AND CALIFORNIA HAVE A
SIGNIFICANT OPPORTUNITY. ALAN
CHALLENGE IN FRONT OF US. AH
BETWEEN NOW AND 2050 IN ORDER
FOR US TO ACHIEVE OUR GLOBAL
ENERGY AMBITIONS. AND TO
MAINTAIN A TEMPERATURE LESS
TEMPERATURE INCREASE OF LESS
THAN TWO °C. WE NEED TO
SIGNIFICANTLY ACCELERATE
ELECTRIFICATION. WE NEED TO
SIGNIFICANTLY DARKENED DE
CARBONIZED OUR ECONOMY. AND
ENTITIES SUCH AS BLOOMBERG'S NEW
ENERGY FOUNDATION AND OTHERS
HAVE SUGGESTED THAT FINAL ENERGY
USE IN 2045 AND 2050 IS LIKELY
TO BE 50% ELECTRIFICATION OF ALL
END USES. THE REMAINING BEING
CLEAN MOLECULES VERY MUCH LIKE
HYDROGEN. WE KNOW THAT THIS IS
GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. AND
DIFFICULT. BUT WE KNOW THAT
THINGS LIKE POWER GENERATION
WILL REQUIRE HYDROGEN. HEAVY
DUTY TRANSPORTATION AS BEEN
MENTIONED BY OTHERS WILL REQUIRE
THINGS LIKE HYDROGEN. AND SO
WILL THIS SIGNIFICANT AND KEY
MANUFACTURING JOBS THAT WE HAVE
IN CALIFORNIA. THAT NEED ACCESS
TO ENERGY. IMPORTANTLY AS
MENTIONED BY OTHERS, INCLUDING,
UM, MY PREDECESSORS ON THE ON
THE DIASPORA AND THE PANEL HERE.
UM WHILE WE DE CARBONIZED, WE
CAN ALSO CLEAN THE AIR AND
COMMUNITIES WHETHER THAT BE THE
SAN JOAQUIN VALLEY. OR
IMPORTANTLY, ALSO IN L. A COUNTY
, WHICH DISPROPORTIONATELY IS
IMPACTED BY AN AIR QUALITY
CHALLENGES. THE POTENTIAL FOR
HYDROGEN AND CALIFORNIA IS
ENORMOUS. UM OTHER PANELISTS
HAVE MENTIONED POWER GENERATION
THE IDEA THAT WE CAN INTEGRATE
OUR EXISTING FLEET OF RENEWABLES
, WIND AND SOLAR AND BATTERIES,
BUT DO THAT IN A WAY THAT ALLOWS
FOR INTER SEASONAL STORAGE,
PRODUCING ELECTRONS IN THE FALL
AND SUMMER IN SUMMER. UH OR IN
SPRING, STORING THEM FOR THE
YEAR FOR SEASONS. AND ALLOWING
FOR THE REDUCTION AND USE OF
TRADITIONAL FOSSIL FUELS. THOSE
ARE ALL THINGS THAT ARE POSSIBLE
WITH HYDROGEN. ALONG WITH THE
TRANSPORTATION APPLICATIONS THAT
HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED THOROUGHLY
BEFORE. INDUSTRIAL
DECARBONIZATION, WHICH IS
SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN TOUCHED
ON BRIEFLY, I THINK IS ALSO
IMPORTANT TO MENTION CALIFORNIA
HAS THE LARGEST CONCENTRATION OF
MANUFACTURING IN THE NATION IN
THE L A BASIN. MORE JOBS AND IN
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA COME FROM
MANUFACTURING. THOSE
MANUFACTURING COMPANIES AND JOBS
WILL REQUIRE ACCESS TO CLEAN
ELECTRONS AND CLEAN MOLECULES TO
HAVE A VITAL AND IMPORTANT
FUTURE IN THE IN THE ECONOMY OF
CALIFORNIA. WE SEE THIS
TRANSITION AS A AS OUTLINED BY
DR WEBBER, THIS NEED TO THINK
ABOUT THE WHOLE SYSTEM. THAT IS
POWER. TRANSPORTATION AND
INDUSTRY. UM, IN A NEW A NEW
VEIN. AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED.
HYDROGEN HAS BEEN USED FOR
DECADES. HYDROGEN PASSED,
THOUGH, HAS BEEN TRADITIONALLY
BEEN USED AS AN INDUSTRIAL
FEEDSTOCK. SO PRIMARILY FOR
INDUSTRIAL PURPOSES. WHAT WE'RE
DOING TODAY IS CHANGING THE
PARADIGM IN THE USE OF HYDROGEN.
AND CHANGING IT TO A NEW USE,
WHICH IS AS AN ENERGY CARRIER.
SO VERY MUCH MORE LIKE THE
ELECTRONS. AND MOLECULES THAT WE
USE TO POWER OUR SOCIETY TODAY.
EXCUSE ME. SO CALLED GAS HAS
MADE SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS IN
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT. WE'VE
BEEN WORKING ON DECARBONIZATION
FOR MORE THAN 20 YEARS. WE HAVE
BUILT. HYDROGEN POWERED HOMES
AND MICROGRIDS, SOME OF WHOM AND
THE STATUS OF ALREADY SEEN THOSE
IN ACTION. THOSE ARE MERELY THE
TIP OF THE ICEBERG ON WHAT WE
THINK, UH, THE STATE NEEDS TO
PROGRESS, ITS ENERGY FUTURE. WE
HAVE ALSO WORKED ON IMPORTANTLY,
UH HUH. PROJECTS LIKE ANGELUS
LINK. ANGELES LINK IS OUR
PROPOSAL, UH, OF WHICH WAS
APPROVED BY THE CPSC APPROVED
FOR OUR FIRST PHASE ONE WORK TO
CAPTURE COSTS. TO LOOK AT A
HYDROGEN BACKBONE SYSTEM FOR THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA, SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA. THE IDEA BEING THAT
THE STATE NEEDS TO. AH INTEGRATE
AND CONNECT ALL OF THESE SOURCES
OF HYDROGEN, WHETHER FROM
TRADITIONAL PRODUCERS OR NEW
PRODUCERS OF HYDROGEN. TO THEIR
END USERS USING A COMMON CARRIER
OPEN ACCESS PIPELINE, MUCH LIKE
THE ENERGY SYSTEMS WE SEE TODAY
LIKE NATURAL GAS. IMPORTANTLY,
AH PROJECTS LIKE ANGELA SLINK.
COULD DE CARBONIZED AREAS LIKE
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THE TRUCKS
COMING IN OUT OF THE PORTS THAT
WE DISCUSSED TODAY? TO THE TUNE
OF A BILLION GALLONS OF
DISPLACED DIESEL A YEAR. AND UP
TO 25,000 METRIC TONS OF NOX A
YEAR AS WELL. THAT'S SIGNIFICANT
COSTS AND HEALTH BENEFITS TO THE
COMMUNITY, WHETHER THAT THOSE
BENEFITS ACCRUE IN IN LOS
ANGELES OR ELSEWHERE IN THE
STATE. WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO CONSIDER THAT AS A ADDED
VALUE OF LOOKING AT HYDROGEN AND
HYDROGEN THAT ALLOWS FOR ACCESS
FOR ALL PRODUCERS AND ALL
CONSUMERS THAT NEED THAT TO THE
GOVERNMENT THAT THE CARBONIZED
Tð TAKE USE OF THEM. IMPORTANTLY
WE TO SOCAL GAS ARE STRONG
SUPPORTER OF DR WEBBER AND
ARCHES. WE THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
THAT CALIFORNIA USE ARCHES AS A
TOOL TO DEMONSTRATE OUR
LEADERSHIP. IN THE SPACE OF
HYDROGEN AND TO LOOK AT HYDROGEN
TRANSITION AS A SYSTEMS
TRANSITION EFFORT THAT REQUIRES
ALL PLAYERS TO PARTICIPATE IN
THAT TRANSITION. IMPORTANTLY, WE
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
WORKERS CALIFORNIA WORKERS ARE
TRAINED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
THIS ENERGY TRANSITION. THOSE
TRADITIONAL FOSSIL FUEL JOBS
HAVE MANY OF THE SAME SKILLS
THAT WILL BE REQUIRED FOR
HYDROGEN. ALLOWING FOR THE NEED
TO RETRAIN THOSE WORKERS TO MAKE
SURE THAT THEY'RE SUCCESSFUL IN
A NEW ENERGY ECONOMY. LASTLY, AS
I MENTIONED BEFORE. WE THINK
IT'S IMPORTANT THAT THE STATE,
UH SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED THE
NEED FOR PERMITTING REPORT
REFORM. ULTIMATELY I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT THAT AS WE MARCH
TOWARDS 2030 AND 2035. THOSE KEY
DATES IN OUR ENERGY TRANSITION
THAT WE HAVE THE TOOLS THAT
ALLOW FOR ALL PARTICIPANTS. TO
AH PERMIT AND ADVANCE HE
CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE TO
SUPPORT THE ENERGY TRANSITION.
WE BELIEVE THAT ANY, UH,
SUPPORTIVE LEGISLATION NEEDS TO
LOOK AT THE IMPORTANT ROLE OF C
P. U. C AND THE C E C IN
ADVANCING THAT INFRASTRUCTURE,
ACCELERATING IT, AND AS I
MENTIONED BEFORE, DO IT IN A WAY
THAT PUTS IT ON PARODY WITH SOME
OF THE IMPORTANT ELECTRICAL
TRANSMISSION WORK THAT IS ALSO
TAKING PLACE TO SUPPORT THE
TRANSITION. UM AGAIN. I'LL JUST
SAY IN CLOSING, THANK YOU FOR
YOUR TIME. IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
WE AS A AS A STATE CONTINUE TO
DEMONSTRATE OUR LEADERSHIP. WE
ARE COMMITTED TO OUR SUPPORT OF
ARCHES AND OUR PARTNERS IN THAT
EFFORT. AND I LOOK FORWARD TO
YOUR QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU QUESTIONS. COMING? NO. WELL,
I WILL TELL YOU THAT, UM AND
LISTENING TO YOU, AND WE THINK
ABOUT SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA GAS
COMPANY. AND YOUR ROLE IN
PARTICIPATION WITH HYDROGEN. YOU
OBVIOUSLY SEE SOMETHING DOWN THE
ROAD THAT WE ALL MUST ADAPT TO
AND ADJUST AND PARTICIPATE IN
BECAUSE IF WE'RE GOING TO MEET
OUR CLIMATE GOALS 2030 2035,
WHICHEVER. THE POINT IS WORKING
WITH ARCHES WORKED WITH THE GAS
COMPANY. OTHER UTILITIES. IT'S
SO IMPORTANT THAT WE REALIZED
THAT UTILITY IS LARGE AND AS
PROMINENT AS GAS COMPANY, SO I
THINK CALIFORNIA GAS COMPANY IS
ON BOARD WITH A SUSTAINABLE
HYDROGEN. THAT SAYS A LOT AND WE
APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE. AND
SO WE LOOK FORWARD TO BRINGING
YOU BACK BECAUSE WE'VE GOT WORK
TO DO, DO YOU? GET EVERYONE TO
REALIZE THAT WE'RE ON THE
THRESHOLD OF HYDROGEN, OPENING
UP THAT DOOR FOR OUR FUTURE IN
CALIFORNIA, AND I THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, SENATOR. THANK YOU,
CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. AND NEXT
STEP. WE HAVE THE, UH UNIONS,
REPRESENTATIVES. AND WE'VE HEARD
TIME AND TIME AGAIN. IT SEEMS
LIKE EVERYONE MENTIONED HOW
HYDROGEN IS PART OF OUR FUTURE.
BUT IT ALSO BRINGS IN TECHNOLOGY
AND WORKFORCE THAT WE'VE GOT TO
TRAIN. AND TIMOTHY JEFFRIES. WE
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. AH HE
IS WITH THE BOILERMAKERS. MR
JEFFRIES PUTS COUNTLESS HOURS.
INTO LOCAL. AH HIS LOCAL, UH,
AND THE BUILDING AND TRADES AND
CENTRAL LABOR COUNCIL AS A
MEMBER, AND HE OBVIOUSLY EVERY
SINGLE DAY YOU'RE WORKING WITH
MEN AND WOMEN IN THE TRADE. AND
AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE
COUNCIL LABOR COUNCIL SINCE 2016
. YES CERTAINLY YOU CURRENTLY
SERVE AS VICE PRESIDENT AND ON
THE EXECUTIVE BOARD AND DELICATE
ON THE CONTRA COSTA BUILDING AND
CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL. SO
WE THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND
SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF LABOR.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR
CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY,
SO I'M YEAH, I'M HERE SPEAKING
ON BEHALF OF LABOR, UM, SO AS A
BOILERMAKER, ONE OF THE BUILDING
TRADE, ONE OF THE FEELINGS OF
THE BUILDING TRADES. AND AS A
BULLET MAKER. AH, I WANTED A LOT
OF THE OLDEST TRADE UNIONS IN
THE UNITED STATES. WE'VE BEEN
TRANSITIONING SINCE WE BEGAN.
THAT WOULD BE STARTING BACK IN
THE, UH GREAT STEAM TRAINS AND
WE WOULD OPEN UP THAT WOULD OPEN
UP THIS GREAT COUNTRY. WE BUILT
THE GREAT BATTLESHIPS, UH, THAT
HELPS SECURE VICTORIES IN WORLD
WAR TWO. WE BUILT TO MAINTAIN
THEM. AMERICA'S. IT WAS BUILT TO
MAINTAIN AMERICA'S ENERGY
INFRASTRUCTURE, AND WE'VE BEEN
PIONEERS IN THE NEWEST
TECHNOLOGY, INCLUDING CARBON
CAPTURE LITHIUM DESALINATION.
HYDROGEN, BIOMASS, ALL THE NEW
TECHNOLOGIES. A LOT HAS BEEN
SAID ABOUT IN THIS BUILDING
ABOUT THE SO CALLED JUST
TRANSITION. THIS IS NOT A TERM
WE USE OR EMBRACE. BUT IF YOU
CARE ABOUT THE WORKERS, AND YOU
CARE ABOUT HAVING A STABLE
SOURCE STABLE SOURCES OF CLEAN
ENERGY CALIFORNIA NEEDS TO
QUICKLY ADAPT POLICY THAT
PROVIDE FOR THE TRANSITION OF
TRADITIONAL ENERGY SOURCES TO
NEWER. CLEANER RESOURCES AND
SKILL TRAINED WORKFORCE HAS BEEN
SAID EARLIER TODAY. EVEN THE
COMMENTS FROM PRODUCTS HAD THE
RELATIONSHIP WITH THE BUILDING
TRADES IN THEIR PRODUCTS.
ABSOLUTELY. THIS TRANSITION IS
NOT GOING TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT,
BUT WE NEED POLICIES NOW HAS
BEEN SAID EARLIER THIS
TRANSITION TO HAPPEN SOON IN
ORDER TO MEET CALIFORNIA'S
AGGRESSIVE CLIMATE, COLD CLIMATE
GOALS AND TO CONTINUE TO POWER
OUR STATE. WE HAVE TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF EXISTING SCALE AND
TRAINED INDUSTRIAL CONSTRUCTION
WORKERS UP AND DOWN THE STATE
ALREADY TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN
CALIFORNIA'S HYDROGEN
INFRASTRUCTURE. WE NEED TO
ENSURE THAT THIS INFRASTRUCTURE
IS BUILT SAFELY AND WITH TRAINED
WORKFORCE THAT COMES FROM THE
VERY SAME COMMUNITIES THAT WILL
HOST THESE HYDRAULIC HYDROGEN
FACILITIES. EXISTING ENERGY
WORKERS, ENERGY WORKERS IN
INDUSTRIAL CONSTRUCTION OF ALL
THE EXACT SAME SKILL SET
NECESSARY TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN
HYDROGEN FACILITIES. A LOT OF
THE. SKILL SETS. THE
BOILERMAKERS DO SPECIFICALLY
BORDER MARKET DO RIGHT NOW IN
THE GAS AND OIL INDUSTRY WILL BE
THE SAME SKILL SETS, WELDING
RIGGING, BLUEPRINT READING MATH.
THOSE SAME SKILL SETS CAN
TRANSFER DIRECTLY OVER INTO
THESE HYDROGEN FACILITIES.
THAT'S A TRANSITION. EXISTING
ENERGY WORKERS IN THE. EXISTING
ENERGY WORKERS IN INDUSTRIAL
CONSTRUCTION HAVE ALL EXACT SAME
SKILL SETS NECESSARY TO BUILD
AND MAINTAIN HYDRO FACILITIES.
HYDROGEN IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW
IN CALIFORNIA. WE ARE BUSY
CONVERTING EXISTING PETROLEUM
REFINERIES TO HYDROGEN AND BOTH
NORTHERN AND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
HAS BEEN SAID EARLIER. BUT MUCH
MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE TO ATTRACT
THE TYPE OF INVESTMENT IN
HYDROGEN THAT WILL SUPPLY IS
DEPLOYMENT AT SCALE. THE WHITE
HOUSE AND CONGRESS HAVE
PRIORITIZED THE DEVELOPMENT OF
HYDROGEN. HAVE BEEN VERY CLEAR
IN THEIR EXPECTATIONS THAT THE
DEVELOPMENT IS TO BE DONE UNDER
PROJECT LABOR AGREEMENTS AND
UTILIZE APPRENTICESHIP SKILLS
APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS. HERE IN
CALIFORNIA. WE CAN DO BOTH AS WE
HAVE THESE IN STATE TRAINED
WORKFORCE THAT IS READY TO BUILD
AND MAINTAIN A ROBUST HYDROGEN
INFRASTRUCTURE. THAT CAN POWER
OUR STATE. WE ARE CONCERNED WITH
THE GROWING PRESSURES. WE ARE
CONCERNED WITH THE GROWING
PRESSURE TO LIMIT HYDROGEN
DEVELOPMENT TO GREEN HYDROGEN,
ONLY. HAVE BEEN OPPOSED TO
POLICIES, INCLUDING ONE PROPOSAL
TO CRIMINALIZE BLUE HYDROGEN.
THIS ETCETERA EARLIER. THIS
LIMITS THE WAYS IN WHICH
HYDROGEN CAN BE PRODUCED. WE
NEED TO MAINTAIN REMAIN OPEN,
NOT ONLY THE TECHNOLOGY OF TODAY
BUT ALSO THE INNOVATIONS OF
TOMORROW, LIMITING HYDROGEN TO
THE GREEN. WILL GREATLY LIMIT
THE NIGHT TYPE OF INVESTMENT WE
CAN ACCESS IN CALIFORNIA.
FURTHER LIMITING OUR ABILITY TO
EMBRACE HYDROGEN AS A LARGE
SCALE ENERGY SOLUTION. WE
BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE MANY WAYS
WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION. THAT IS NOT
GOING TO BE A ONE SIZE FITS ALL
APPROACH. BUT WE KNOW THAT
CALIFORNIANS WERE NOT RENOWNED
FOR INNOVATION, AND WE SHOULD
NOT BE ADAPTING POLICY THAT WILL
LIMIT THAT INNOVATION OR
INVESTMENT. IN THE TRADE. WE
NEVER GO INTO A JOB WITH A
SINGLE TOOL. WE SHOULDN'T BE
DOING THIS AS WE THINK ABOUT
POLICY AROUND HYDROGEN. WE URGE
AND EXPANSIVE VIEW ON HYDROGEN
POWER PRODUCTION AND ENERGY
INNOVATION. WE'RE GOING TO NEED
EVERY TOOL IN THE TOOLBOX. EVERY
TWO ABOUT TO ABOUT TO GET TO
MEET CALIFORNIA'S AGGRESSIVE
CLIMATE GOALS AND TO CONTINUE TO
POWER OUR STATE. NOW THE FOURTH
LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD. WE
ARE THE ENVIRONMENTAL INSTALLING
HAS BEEN INSTALLING CEO TO
REDUCING OR ELIMINATING DEVICES
FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. ALLOW US
TO CONTINUE TO DO SO. THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU. AND,
UH, PLEASE CENTER. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. WELL, I JUST WANT TO
SAY THAT I APPRECIATE THE
POSITION IN REGARDS TO GREEN AND
BLUE. I THINK THAT THAT'S BEEN
PART OF THE DISCUSSION AND
DEBATE AND DISAGREEMENT THAT
WE'VE HAD IN THE LEGISLATURE IS
SETTING LIMITS ON THE KIND OF
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION THAT WE'RE
DOING WHEN THERE'S A BETTER WAY
TO DO IT, UM, BETTER METRICS FOR
DOING IT, AND I AND I DO
APPRECIATE THE. THE INCLUSION OF
CARBON CAPTURE AND BIOMASS
FACILITIES BECAUSE I THINK
THEY'RE ALL IMPORTANT. THERE'S A
THERE'S A SYNERGY BETWEEN THOSE
KINDS OF PROJECTS THAT THE
OUTPUT OF ONE CAN BE USED FOR
THE INPUT OF THE OTHER. AND IF
WE'RE GETTING RID OF THINGS THAT
WE NEED TO GET RID OF, LIKE
WOODY WASTE AND TRASH THEN, UM,
IT'S BETTER FOR THE. BETTER FOR
THE COMMUNITY AND THE FACT THAT
WE CAN ACTUALLY CLEAN THE AIR.
IN DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES IS
REALLY IMPORTANT AS WELL. SO
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY
HERE TODAY. APPRECIATE IT. UM,
AND I HOPE THAT YOU'LL BE UM
AVAILABLE TO KIND OF CONVINCED,
UH. AH THE LEGISLATURE THAT THIS
THE WAY TO GO IS TO CREATE
OPPORTUNITIES TO INVEST IN
HYDROGEN BECAUSE IT HELPS US TO
SOLVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF PROBLEMS
THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SOLVE FOR.
YES, MA'AM. I APPRECIATE IT. YES
MR JEFFRIES. THANK YOU AGAIN. I
WILL TELL YOU THAT THE MEN AND
WOMEN YOU REPRESENT WHO ARE
BUILDING THE HYDROGEN ENERGY
THAT WE'RE ALL LOOKING FOR, IS
SO IMPORTANT. THE FACT THAT
YOU'RE EMBRACING IT AND NOT
PUSHING HER SIDE IS SO IMPORTANT
FOR ALL THE LABOR UNIONS BECAUSE
WE HAVE TO TRANSPORT IT. WE HAVE
TO PRODUCE IT TRANSPORTED,
MANUFACTURE WHATEVER WE HAVE TO
DO. IT TAKES TOP NOTCH
PROFESSIONALS TO DO THAT, AND I
KNOW ALL THE TRADES NOR THE
UNIONS WILL. I'M SURE LIKE YOU
GET BEHIND US BECAUSE IT IS PART
OF OUR FUTURE. AND I THANK YOU
FOR YOUR SERVICE. AND I THANK
YOU FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING.
APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
YOU KNOW, NEXT LADIES AND
GENTLEMEN. WE ME
SORROW. VICE PRESIDENT STRATEGIC
GROWTH. AND GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS
WERE FIRST ELEMENT FUELS. DO YOU
WANT THE LARGEST RETAIL HYDROGEN
STATION PROVIDER IN THE WORLD?
AND. DOCTOR THANK YOU AGAIN, HE
HAS OVER 20 YEARS OF EXPERIENCE
IN AIR QUALITY POLICY AND PRIOR
TO JOINING FIRST ELEMENT FUEL.
THE DOCTOR SERVED AS THE CHIEF
TECHNOLOGIST AT THE SOUTH COAST
AIR QUALITY MANAGEMENT DISTRICT.
AND DR MATCH TOMORROW HAS A B S.
M S AND PHD FROM UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA, IRVINE. WELCOME,
DOCTOR. THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN AND
SENATORS ON THE COMMITTEE. UM
THANK YOU FOR THE INTRODUCTION.
MATT MASADA, VICE PRESIDENT FOR
SUSTAINABLE GROWTH AND
GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS AT FIRST
ELEMENT FUEL. DO YOU APPRECIATE
THE OPPORTUNITY FOR SOMEONE TO
PRESENT HERE AT THIS
INFORMATIONAL HEARING. I DO WANT
TO START OFF AND I WILL TRY TO
KEEP IT BRIEF. WITH A
PERSPECTIVE ON WHO FIRST ELEMENT
IS YOU GET AN IDEA OF THE
PERSPECTIVE THAT WE BRING TO THE
TABLE IN TERMS OF 100. FUELING
WE ARE A PURPOSE BUILT COMPANY.
OUR SOLE MISSION IS TO PROVIDE
HYDROGEN FUELING INFRASTRUCTURE
TO ENABLE THE TRANSITION TO ZERO
MISSION TRANSPORTATION. SO WE
STARTED WITH THREE FOUNDERS IN
ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA. WE
HAVE NOW GROWN TO OVER 100
MEMBERS IN OUR COMPANY. WE ARE
THE MARKET LEADER AS YOU
MENTIONED SENATOR FOR HYDROGEN
FILLING WITHIN THE STATE, AS YOU
CAN SEE FROM THIS MAP WE HAVE
ABOUT 20 STATIONS IN SOUTHERN
I'M SORRY. SENATE CABALLERO. WE
WILL GIVE YOU THIS SLIDE SO YOU
CAN SEE IT. BUT THE MATH
ESSENTIALLY SHOWS THAT WE'VE GOT
20 STATIONS IN SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA 20 STATIONS AROUND IN
THE BAY AREA, AND WE FEEL ALMOST
2 MILLION KG OF HYDROGEN EVERY
YEAR, AND THAT EQUATES TO ABOUT
400 MISSION MILES THAT ARE
ENABLED FOR THAT TRANSITION WHEN
WE FIRST STARTED OUT WITH THE
STATE OF THE ART PRODUCTION FOR
FUELING INFRASTRUCTURE IN 2018.
THIS IS WHAT IT WAS. IT WAS A
SINGLE DISPENSER, GASSES
DELIVERY. AH AND AS MIKE LORD
WILL TELL YOU FROM TOYOTA THAT
THIS IS JUST NOT SUSTAINABLE.
YOU CANNOT START A MARKET WITH
DRIVERS WAITING IN LINE FOR AN
HOUR TO GET FUEL AND EVEN THEN
THERE MAY NOT GET A FULL TANK.
AND SO WE HAVE SINCE MOVED TO
LIQUID HYDROGEN STORED AT THE AT
OUR FEELINGS STATIONS THAT
PROVIDES FIVE TIMES MORE FUEL ON
SITE. WE CAN FILL FOUR CARS
SIMULTANEOUSLY. AND THAT ENABLES
US TO THEN PROVIDE FUELING
EXPERIENCE, WHICH IS VERY
SIMILAR TO GASOLINE LIKE YOU
WOULD WITH YOUR NORMAL VEHICLE.
BUT THAT DID NOT COME WITHOUT
SIGNIFICANT LEARNINGS AND
HURDLES THAT WE HAD TO ACHIEVE.
THIS JUST SHOWS YOU THAT WITH
OUR LIQUID FUELED STATIONS WERE
FILLING ALMOST THREE TIMES THE
AMOUNT OF HYDROGEN THEM WITH OUR
GASSES STATIONS. AND WHAT THAT'S
DONE IS ENABLED US TO LOOK AT
HEAVY DUTY. SO NOW WE ARE
BUILDING THE FIRST EVER FAST
FILL HEAVY DUTY STATION IN THE
PORTS OF OAKLAND. IT'S PART OF
THE CALIFORNIA ENERGY COMMISSION
AND CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES
BOARD JOINT PROJECT TO
DEMONSTRATE 30 CLASS EIGHT PURE
SELL TRUCKS AT THE PORTS OF
OAKLAND. THAT STATION IS
CURRENTLY BEING BUILT AS WE
SPEAK. IT WILL BE OPERATIONAL IN
THE FALL AND WILL BE
DEMONSTRATING THESE VEHICLES FOR
THE NEXT 12 TO 18 MONTHS. UM SO
LET ME LET ME ADDRESS THE THINGS
THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS ASKED US
TO TALK ABOUT THAT THERE'S THREE
MAIN THINGS THAT WE'D LOVE FOR
THE COMMITTEE TO CONSIDER. FIRST
OF ALL IS HOW CAN THE
LEGISLATURE HELP WELL FIRST AS A
REALIZATION THAT HYDRANT FUELING
IN THE RETAIL ENVIRONMENT IS
NEW. IT'S LESS THAN 10 YEARS OLD
RIGHT? SO EVEN THOUGH TOYOTA AND
OTHERS HAVE BEEN BUILDING FUEL
CELL VEHICLES AND SOME FORM
THEY'VE BEEN BUILDING COMMERCIAL
VEHICLES, RETAIL VEHICLES FOR
YOU KNOW, OVER 100 YEARS, 50
YEARS, MAYBE RETAIL FEELING HAS
ONLY BEEN EXISTENCE FOR 10 YEARS
, AND SO THE SUPPLY CHAIN FOR
THAT THOSE EQUIPMENT IS STILL
IMMATURE. WE'VE HAD TO DEAL WITH
REDESIGNING REMANUFACTURING
INNOVATING TECHNOLOGIES JUST TO
KEEP OUR STATIONS RUNNING AS A
DATA POINT. OVER HALF OF OUR
COMPANY IS DEDICATED TO
OPERATIONS AND SERVICE. THAT'S
NOT SUSTAINABLE. WE CANNOT KEEP
BUILDING STATIONS AND ADDING
STAFF BECAUSE THE EQUIPMENTS
UNRELIABLE, SO WE DO HAVE A
SOLUTION. WE'RE BECOMING MORE
VERTICALLY INTEGRATED, THANKS TO
A GRANT FROM THE CALIFORNIA
ENERGY COMMISSION. SO WE'RE
DOING MORE CRITICAL
MANUFACTURING IN HOUSE AT OUR
FACILITY IN SANTA ANA, BUT
UNFORTUNATELY THAT TAKES TIME
AND WE KNOW THAT WE HEAR OUTCRY
FROM DRIVERS THAT YOU KNOW
STATIONS ARE DOWN. AND WE'RE
JUST TRYING TO URGE PATIENTS
BECAUSE WE DO KNOW WHAT WE'RE
DOING, AND WE DO HAVE A LINE OF
SIGHT TO GETTING THE RELIABILITY
AND UPTIME THAT'S NECESSARY. BUT
IT DOES INDEED TAKE TIME FOR US
TO DEVELOP THAT MANUFACTURING
CAPABILITY IN HOUSE. THE SECOND
THING THAT WE'D LOVE FOR YOU TO
CONSIDER IS THE STATE INCENTIVE
STRUCTURE. IT'S CURRENTLY THERE
ARE TWO PROGRAMS WHICH THE STATE
HAS ENABLED THROUGH YOUR
LEADERSHIP, AND ONE IS THE CLEAN
TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM THAT'S
ADMINISTERED BY THE CALIFORNIA
ENERGY COMMISSION. AND THAT
PROVIDES CAPITAL GRANTS FOR
STATION INFRASTRUCTURE, AND THE
SECOND IS THE LOW CARBON FUEL
STANDARD. THAT IS ADMINISTERED
BY THE CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES
BOARD THAT PROVIDES CREDITS FOR
LOW CARBON FUELS AS YOU AS YOU
KNOW. UNFORTUNATELY BOTH OF
THOSE PROGRAMS ARE SOMEWHAT IN
LIMBO. THE CTP THE CLEAN
TRANSPORTATION PROGRAM HAS YET
TO BE REAUTHORIZED. WE'D LOVE TO
SEE SOME TWEAKS IN THERE TO
ENSURE THAT LIGHT DUTY HYDROGEN
FUELING STILL GETS A PORTION OF
THOSE FUNDS AND THAT WE CAN
CONTINUE BUILDING STATIONS AND
THE LOW CARBON FUEL STANDARD IS
NOT GOING TO GO BEFORE THE BOARD
UNTIL FALL TIME FRAME OF THIS
YEAR. BUT BECAUSE THE STATE
THOSE TWO PROGRAMS ARE SOMEWHAT
IN LIMBO, IT'S ESSENTIALLY
HALTED ANY PRIVATE INVESTMENT,
SO WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BUILD
STATIONS UNTIL THOSE POLICIES
ARE REENACTED WITH FAVORABLE
HYDROGEN INCENTIVES. THE OTHER
THING THAT I WOULD MENTION IS,
UH AS ADAM DR WEBBER MENTIONED
IS ARCHES IS GOING TO BE A
CRITICAL ROLE FOR US IN THE 2027
POST 2030 TIME FRAME BECAUSE
YOU'LL HAVE ALL THIS RENEWABLE
HYDROGEN, THEN PRODUCED THAT
THAT CAN GO INTO OUR STATIONS,
BUT WE NEED SOMETHING THAT'S
CLEAR SIGNAL NOW TO THE MARKET
TO ENSURE THAT WE CAN CONTINUE
TO BUILD STATIONS AND THEN
FINALLY, THEY MAY JUST ADDRESS
THAT, YOU KNOW, LET ME JOIN IN
THE CHORUS OF VOICES. THEY'RE
SAYING THAT YOU KNOW THE PATHWAY
TO ZERO EMISSIONS. IS REALLY
THROUGH TO, UH, TECHNOLOGIES, AT
LEAST FOR TRANSPORTATION, AND
THAT'S WITH BATTERY ELECTRIC
VEHICLES AND FUEL CELLS. AND IN
2035, THE STATE IS MANDATED. NO
MORE COMBUSTION VEHICLES LIKE
DUTY AND THE SAME TIMEFRAME. NO
CLASS EIGHT HEAVY DUTY
COMMISSION GRADES TRUCKS, AND SO
WE JUST THINK IT'S TOO SOON TO
BE CONSTRAINING THE CHOICES
RIGHT? LET THE MARKET DECIDE BY
PROVIDING UM, THE INCENTIVES AND
THE TECHNOLOGIES TO COMBAT THE
COMBAT THAT CRISIS AND LET ME
JUST END WITH THIS, UM, THIS
GRAPHIC AND I'D BE REMISS IF I
DIDN'T DID I DIDN'T BRING THIS
UP IS THAT YOU KNOW, WE'RE
CURRENTLY FINDING A CLIMATE
CRISIS AND THE WILDFIRE
DEVASTATION. LAHAINA MAUI IS
JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT THE
WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN IS
FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGED, AND
THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE CLIMATE
CRISIS. SO WE'RE ASKING YOU
PLEASE DON'T TAKE TOOLS AWAY
FROM US AS I LOVE THE TIMOTHY
FROM THE BOILERMAKERS ENGINE.
DON'T TAKE TOLLS OFF OUR TOOL
BELT RIGHT THAT WE CAN COMBAT
THIS CRISIS. WE SHOULD BE
ARGUING WHETHER WHICH
FIREFIGHTER GETS MORE RESOURCES
WHETHER WATER IS RENEWABLE,
RECYCLABLE FROM A GLACIAL OR
MOUNTAIN SPRING, RIGHT, LET'S
LET'S ENABLE INDUSTRY TO MEET
THOSE AGGRESSIVE CLIMATE GOALS
AS WE HAVE BEEN, BUT WE NEED
THOSE INCENTIVES TO HELP US
ENSURE THAT WE HAVE A BUSINESS
CASE AND WE CAN BE SUSTAINABLE.
SO WITH THAT, I'D LIKE TO
CONCLUDE AND BE HAPPY TO TAKE
YOUR QUESTIONS. ANYWAY. SENATOR.
UM, YOUR COMPANY IS A PRIVATE
COMPANY. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S
CORRECT, UM, CLOSELY HELD OR
PUBLICLY PRIVATELY HELD
PRIVATELY HELD AND IS THE
COMPANY PROFITABLE? NO OKAY, YOU
NEED MORE STATIONS TO BE
PROFITABLE. EXACTLY SO IF WE CAN
REACH A CERTAIN LEVEL AS AS WITH
ALSO THE AMOUNT OF THROUGHPUT
RIGHT, SO WE NEED HYDROGEN SALES
TO ENABLE US THEN THERE IS A
LINE OF SIGHT TOWARD GETTING TO
PROFITABILITY. YES HOW MANY
STATIONS DO YOU OPERATE? NOW
THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY GEOGRAPHICALLY
CONCENTRATED IN THE BAY AREA AND
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA DRIVERS ARE
EXACTLY SO WE HAVE 40 STATIONS.
THOSE ARE LIGHT DUTY STATIONS.
WE CURRENTLY AS I MENTIONED ARE
BUILDING THE FIRST HEAVY DUTY
STATION. WE SEE A LOT OF PROMISE
WITH THE HEAVY DUTY MARKET. WE
HAVE ONE STATION THAT CENTER
CONSTRUCTION AS I MENTIONED
OAKLAND AND WE HAVE PERMITS FOR
THREE MORE. HOW MANY STATIONS DO
YOU NEED TO HIT THAT PROFIT
POINT? THAT'S SOMETHING PROBABLY
I'M NOT THE BEST PERSON TO
DISCUSS THAT WITH, BUT WE
BELIEVE THAT WITH ARCHES AND WE
HAVE, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY A
COUPLE OF HANDFULS OF STATIONS
IN THAT PROGRAM. UM, AND IF THE
MARKET DOES TAKE OFF LIKE WE
ANTICIPATE WE THINK, UM YOU
KNOW? WE WON'T BE EATING RAMEN
FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES. ARE
YOU DOING ANYTHING TO TRY TO
CONVINCE MANUFACTURERS OTHER
THAN TOYOTA TO PURSUE HYDROGEN
CAR PRODUCTION? WELL, WE THINK
SO. WE ARE WE ARE. WE ARE
WORKING CLOSELY WITH HYUNDAI,
FOR EXAMPLE, AND HONDA SO AND
THAT'S WHY WE THINK THE LIGHT
UNIT WE SHOULDN'T GIVE UP ON THE
LIGHT DUE TO MARKET. ONE THING
THAT THE PANEL HAD ASKED. SOME
OF THE OTHER PRESENTERS IS, YOU
KNOW WHAT IS THE FIRST KIND OF
MOVERS? I MEAN, THERE'S CLEAR
AT, UH, BENEFITS FROM LOOKING AT
HEAVY DUTY PORTICO WOMEN
ETCETERA, BUT THE EQUIPMENT
DOESN'T YET EXIST. IT'S NOT
COMMERCIAL. YOU'VE GOT. MAJOR
LIGHT DUTY OHMS THAT HAVE
COMMERCIAL VEHICLES ARE
AVAILABLE AND READY TO ROLL OUT
IF THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS
AVAILABLE, RIGHT, SO WE KNOW
TOYOTA HONDA. HYUNDAI HAS THE
MOST FUEL CELL VEHICLES ANYWHERE
IN THE WORLD IN SOUTH KOREA.
BRING THOSE HERE RIGHT, SO WE'LL
BUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE IF WE
CAN GET THE VEHICLES AND THE
DEMAND SO THE ASIAN
MANUFACTURERS APPEAR TO BE MORE
OPEN. UH EUROPEAN AND DOMESTIC
MANUFACTURERS HAVE JUST
SEEMINGLY BEEN TOTALLY SOLD ON
BATTERY POWERED VEHICLES. I
WOULD THINK THAT'S WHERE YOUR
OPPORTUNITY IS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE
OF THE INCREASED CONVEYANCE.
WELL, SO, UM, TWO OF THE MAJOR
DOMESTICS ARE BUILDING, UM,
LIGHT DUTY TRUCKS. IT'S PART OF
THE DEAL WE SUPER TRUCK PROGRAM
HAS. SO WE'VE BEEN IN
DISCUSSIONS WITH THEM, AND YOU
KNOW THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT
MAKE THE MOST MONEY FOR AND THE
COMMERCIAL MARKET AND SO WE SEE
THEM AS REALLY STARTING TO LOOK
AT THAT MARKET AS AS AN
OPPORTUNITY. YEAH. SO WE AGREE
WITH YOU. THANKS. YOU KNOW? MHM
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
PRESENTATION TODAY. I REALLY
APPRECIATE IT AND I APPRECIATE
THE SPECIFICITY IN YOUR
RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE
LEGISLATURE. UM, YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE SOME. WE HAVE SOME WORK TO
DO ON IT. UM THERE'S A. WE'VE
HAD THIS DISCUSSION WITH FAMILY
MEMBERS THAT HAVE HYDROGEN
VEHICLES IS, YOU KNOW THEY CAN
STAY AROUND SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA
, BUT THEY CAN'T MAKE IT UP TO
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA WITHOUT SOME
TREPIDATION ABOUT WHETHER
THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET
HYDROGEN, SO I APPRECIATE THE
EXPANSION INTO THE PART OF THE
STATE. THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE
RURAL. AND IF THOSE VEHICLES
THAT ARE ON THE DOMESTIC MARKET
THAT ARE OUR LIGHT DUTY TRUCKS.
UM THEN THAT'S THE MARKET TO BE
ABLE TO MOVE INTO RURAL
CALIFORNIA AND BE ABLE TO KIND
OF BUILD THE INFRASTRUCTURE
NECESSARY. AND SO I APPRECIATE
THAT, AND I WE HAD A NUMBER OF
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT COME AND
VISIT ME AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE
PEOPLE'S TO BE ABLE TO DO IT
WITHOUT RENTING A VEHICLE TO BE
ABLE TO MAKE THAT THAT THAT
THROUGH THE STATES THE SAME
THING WHEN I WENT TO VEGAS FOR A
FAMILY REUNION, I HAD TO RENT A
CAR BECAUSE THERE WAS NO FEELING
FROM HERE TO VEGAS. BUT LET ME
LET ME JUST GIVE YOU ONE MORE
DATA POINT. WE ARE BUILDING A
CITY FILLING STATION IN
KETTLEMAN CITY. IT WILL HAVE
BOTH HEAVY DUTY AND LIGHT DUTY.
THERE'S ALSO WE'RE LOOKING AT
FRESNO, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT
CONNECTING UP THE FIVE TO
PROVIDE THAT CORRIDOR. I
APPRECIATE THAT, BECAUSE THE
COMMUNITY COLLEGE IN FRESNO HAS
A HYDROGEN. THAT'S WHERE WE MET
TRAINING PROGRAM AND THEY'RE
VERY EXCITED ABOUT IT. AND THE
FUELING STATION IS IN KALINGA.
AND SO, UM, AND THE INFORMATION
I RECEIVED IS THAT THEY RUN OUT
VERY QUICKLY, AND SO IF YOU GET
THERE AT A PARTICULARLY BAD TIME
, IT'S A WHILE BEFORE THE NEXT
DELIVERY COMES APPRECIATE WHAT
YOU'RE THAT THAT COMMITMENT
YOU'VE MADE AND KNOW THAT THERE
ARE MANY OF US THAT ARE REALLY
TRYING TO WORK THROUGH THE
DETAILS TO MAKE SURE HYDROGEN IS
PART OF ANY PROGRAM THAT WE DO
IN ENERGY, AND THAT IT BE
NEUTRAL IN TERMS OF HOW WE
EVALUATE THE BENEFIT OF THE
PROGRAM OR NOT, SO THANK YOU.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR CHAMPIONSHIP.
DOCTOR LET ME CLOSE WITH MY
QUESTIONS. THE FACT THAT THE
FUEL CELL BATTERY CARS THAT ARE
OUT THERE, UH THEY ARE. YOU
KNOW, I'VE TALKED TO SOME OF THE
OWNERS. THEY LOVE THE
AUTOMOBILE. THEY LOVE THEM. AND
OF COURSE, THE ISSUE IS FINDING
THE STATION AND HAVING FUEL AT
THE STATION. AT THE RIGHT TIME
AS YOU AS THE PICTURE THAT
BEHIND YOU SHOWS THERE'S A LINE
. IT MAY NOT BE AS BAD NOW AS IT
WAS BACK THEN, BUT IT'S STILL AN
ISSUE. HOW DO WE GET PEOPLE TO
INVEST WITH YOU? UH OR IS IT
TOTALLY UP TO YOU TO BUILD THESE
STATIONS OUT AS YOUR OWN ENTITY
OR IS THERE COMPETITION COMING?
BECAUSE THE NEED IS COMING. WHAT
DO YOU SEE? WELL, WE WELCOME THE
COMPETITION BECAUSE THAT WILL
THEN DRIVE DOWN THE CAST. THE
SUPPLY CHAIN GETS EXPANDED, AND
SO YOU'LL HAVE MORE PARTS. SO IT
MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. YOU KNOW,
IT'S THE HIGH TIDE RAISES ALL
BOATS. UM BUT BECAUSE OF THE
CHALLENGES WE FACE WITH
INFRASTRUCTURE AND EQUIPMENT. AS
I MENTIONED, WE HAVE TAKEN THE
MANTRA THAT WE'RE ON OUR OWN,
AND WE'RE GOING TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE BUILD AND HAVE EQUIPMENT
AND SPARE PARTS BECAUSE WE CAN'T
RELY ON THIS FAULTY OR THE
SUPPLY CHAIN THAT'S IN EUROPE.
HMM. I'D LIKE TO SAY THERE IS NO
PLAN B, SO WE'RE IN IT FOR THE
LONG HAUL WE ARE INTENT IS TO
ENSURE THAT CALIFORNIA'S
AGGRESSIVE GOALS TOWARDS ZERO
EMISSION TRANSPORTATION ARE MET
. AND WE WOULD LIKE TO DO OUR
PART IN YOUR FUTURE. YOU SEE LOS
ANGELES SANFORD, LOS ANGELES,
SAN FRANCISCO SACRAMENTO OR DO
YOU SEE THE CORRIDOR GOING UP
AND DOWN THE STATE? IT HAS TO BE
BOTH RIGHT. YOU NEED TO HAVE THE
CORRIDORS REALLY? FOR TRUCKING
MOST LIKELY, AND THEN THE AS YOU
MENTIONED THE BIG CITIES ARE
WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT
OF LIGHT DUTY TRAFFIC. YEAH I
THANK YOU FOR COMING, DR. AND
PLEASE CONTINUE BECAUSE WE NEED
THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND WE NEED
YOU. THANK YOU. VERY GOOD. THANK
YOU. YEAH. OKAY, NOW WE'RE GOING
TO RACHEL HALL. AND SHE COMES
UP. THANK YOU, RACHEL FOR BEING
HERE. AND RACHEL. HOW IS HEAD OF
COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT AT
UNIVERSAL HYDROGEN. UNIVERSAL
HYDROGEN IS AN AVIATION AND
AEROSPACE MANUFACTURER BASED IN
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA. AND I THINK
WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO TELL US IS
DON'T JUST THINK ABOUT THE
AUTOMOBILE. THINK ABOUT
AEROSPACE AND AVIATION BEING
PART OF THE FUTURE WITH
HYDROGEN. SO RACHEL, YOU HAVE
THE FLOOR. THANK YOU. THANK YOU
SO MUCH. SO GOOD AFTERNOON, UM
CHAIRMEN AND THE COMMITTEE. MY
NAME IS RACHEL HALL. I'M THE
HEAD OF COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT.
UNIVERSAL HYDROGEN. AS YOU SAID
, I'M TRULY GRATEFUL FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY TODAY AND
TO SHARE EXPERIENCES AS ONE OF
THE COMPANIES THAT THE FOREFRONT
OF MAKING TRUE ZERO EMISSION
FLIGHT VIA HYDROGEN POWER
REALITY. HMM. UM UNIVERSAL
HYDROGEN IS A GROUP OF AVIATION
EXPERTS WITH DECADES OF
EXPERIENCE ADVANCING SUSTAINABLE
AIR B AVIATION AT AIRBUS, BOEING
AND OTHER LEADING AEROSPACE
COMPANIES ARE CO FOUNDER PAUL
EREMENKO WAS FORMER CHIEF
TECHNOLOGY OFFICER OF AIRBUS AND
OUR CTO. MARK COUSIN WAS THE
CHIEF ENGINEER FOR AIRBUS'S
BELUGA PROGRAM. WE'RE BASED IN
HAWTHORNE, CALIFORNIA, AND WE'VE
JUST ANNOUNCED THAT WE'RE
OPENING A FLIGHT TEST CENTER IN
MOJAVE, CALIFORNIA. WE'RE PROUD
TO BE A CALIFORNIA COMPANY AND
TO PARTICIPATE IN CALIFORNIA'S
ADOPTION OF RENEWABLE HYDROGEN,
THE CARBONIZED TRANSPORTATION
AND OTHER HARD TO OBEY SECTORS.
YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE HEARD OF
UNIVERSAL HYDROGEN. BUT A FEW
MONTHS AGO, WE MADE AVIATION
HISTORY WITH OUR HISTORIC FIRST
FLIGHT OF A 40 PASSENGER DASH A
REGIONAL AIRCRAFT BUT IT ON ONE
SIDE WITH OUR HYDROGEN FUEL CELL
POWERTRAIN THAT WE DEVELOPED
HERE IN CALIFORNIA. HERE IS A
PICTURE OF OUR FIRST TAKEOFF.
EARLIER THIS MARCH. THIS FLIGHT
REPRESENTS THE LARGEST AIRCRAFT
EVER TO FLY, POWERED WITH A
HYDROGEN FUEL CELL POWERTRAIN IS
ALSO THE LARGEST AIRCRAFT EVER
TO FLY PRINCIPALLY ON HYDROGEN
POWER. SINCE OUR INITIAL FLIGHT
, WE'VE COMPLETED EIGHT
ADDITIONAL TEST FLIGHTS,
BREAKING RECORDS WITH RESPECT TO
ALTITUDE AT 10,000 FT AND
DURATION AT OVER AN HOUR. HERE'S
A PICTURE OF OUR FULLY MATURED
HYDROGEN FUEL CELL POWERTRAIN.
UM I MIGHT BE BIASED, BUT IT'S
QUITE IMPRESSIVE OF ENGINEERING.
UM NOTE THAT WE PROVIDE THESE
POWERTRAINS TO AIRLINES AT A RED
AS A RETRO KIT FOR EXISTING
REGIONAL AIRCRAFT. BECAUSE OF
THIS APPROACH, WE BELIEVE IT'S
POSSIBLE TO COMPETE COMPLETE A
RIGOROUS CERTIFICATION PROCESS
ENTER INTO COMMERCIAL SERVICE BY
2026. AIRLINE INTEREST IN OUR
AIRCRAFT RETROFITS HAS BEEN
OVERWHELMING. WE NOW HAVE
PARTNERSHIPS WITH 15 16
DIFFERENT AIRLINES ACROSS 12
DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND
COMMITMENTS FOR OVER 250
AIRCRAFT. WITHIN A DECADE,
YOU'LL SEE OUR HYDROGEN POWERED
AIRCRAFT FLYING IN NEARLY EVERY
REGION IN THE EARTH. ALSO NOTE
THAT IT'S NOT A HYDROGEN POWER
TRAIN. OUR MOTOR IS 100, POWERED
BY HYDROGEN FUEL CELL. ONE OF
THE MOST UNIQUE ASPECTS OF OUR
BUSINESS MODEL IS THAT WE DON'T
REQUIRE ANY NEW AND EXPENSIVE
INFRASTRUCTURE. THIS IS BECAUSE
WE HAVE MADE THE HYDROGEN FUEL
TANKS MODULAR, ALLOWING US TO
FILL THEM OFFSITE AND TRANSPORT
THEM TO AND FROM THE AIRPORT
WITH STANDARD DELIVERY TRUCKS.
THEY ARE ALSO ABLE TO BE LOADED
ON AND OFF AIRCRAFT WITH
EXISTING GRAND GROUND HANDLING
EQUIPMENT. EVERY AIRPORT IN THE
WORLD IS NOW READY TO SUPPORT
ZERO EMISSION, HYDROGEN POWERED
FLIGHT. UM AND HERE'S A PICTURE
OF OUR AIRPORT GROUND CREW AND
TO LOSE FRANCE DEMONSTRATING THE
SAFE AND EFFICIENT REFUELING OF
AN EIGHT YARD 72 WHETHER MODULAR
TANKS. IF YOU'RE SKEPTICAL ABOUT
THE FUTURE OF HYDROGEN AVIATION
, I HOPE OUR SUCCESSFUL TEST
FLIGHT HELPS PERSUADE YOU THAT
ACHIEVING TRUE ZERO EMISSION
AVIATION WITH RENEWABLE HYDROGEN
IS NOT ONLY ACHIEVABLE REALITY,
AND IT'S COMING TO CALIFORNIA
SOONER THAN YOU MIGHT THINK. TO
REITERATE. WE BELIEVE IT IS
POSSIBLE TO COMPLETE A RIGOROUS
FAA CERTIFICATION PROCESS AND
ENTERED COMMERCIAL SERVICE BY
2026. IMAGINE THAT BEING ABLE TO
FLY BETWEEN LOS ANGELES AND
SACRAMENTO ON HYDROGEN PRODUCED
BY SOLAR POWER AND ADMITTING
ONLY WATER. THIS IS GOOD NEWS
FOR THOSE THAT SUPPORT HYDROGEN
AS OUR PLANES WILL PROVIDE A
CLEAR AND CONSISTENT OFFTAKE FOR
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION IN THE
STATE. A TYPICAL FLEET OF 15
AIRCRAFT WILL REQUIRE APPROX
APPROXIMATELY 207,250 TONS OF
HYDROGEN PER YEAR. BECAUSE OF
THE LARGE VOLUMES OF HYDROGEN.
OUR AIRCRAFT WILL CRIER. THEY
WILL NOT ONLY SUPPORT THE
EFFORTS OF CALIFORNIA TO DE
CARBONIZED INDUSTRIES BUT ALSO
REDUCE DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN
FOSSIL FUELS AND CREATE JOBS FOR
DISAPPEARING MIDDLE CLASS. BUT
WE CAN'T DO THIS ALONE. WE NEED
THE COMMITTEE AND THE STATES
HELP. SO I COME TO YOU WITH
THREE REQUESTS. FIRST, THE PRICE
OF RENEWABLE HYDROGEN MUST BE ON
PAR WITH JET FUEL. AND THE
UNITED STATES. WE'VE MADE A LOT
OF PROGRESS WITH THE PASSAGE OF
THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT.
HYDROGEN PRODUCTION TRACKS
CREDIT. HOWEVER, WE'RE NOT THERE
YET. ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS
NEEDED TO ENCOURAGE THE
PRODUCTION AND ADOPTION OF
HYDROGEN. SECOND. THE
LEGISLATURE MUST ALLOCATE
RESOURCES EQUALLY TO HYDROGEN
ELECTRIC AND HYBRID HYBRID
AVIATION PROGRAMS AS WELL AS
SUSTAINABLE AVIATION FUELS OR
STAFFS. AT A RECENT CLEAN
AVIATION CONFERENCE IN EUROPE.
PARTICIPANTS WERE ASKED WHAT
TECHNOLOGY WILL FUEL THE FUTURE
OF FLIGHT. ELECTRIC HYDROGEN
HYBRID OR SOFT, THE CLEAR WINNER
WAS HYDROGEN. AND YET WE SEE IN
CONGRESS AND STATE LEGISLATURES
ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT NEARLY
ALL LEGISLATION INVOLVING
SUSTAINABLE AVIATION IS FOCUSED
ON STAFFS. I'M NOT HERE TO ARGUE
THE MERITS OF STAFF VERSUS
HYDROGEN. ALL SIMPLY POINT OUT
THAT WE HAVE A CLEAR ROADMAP TO
ACHIEVE TRUE ZERO EVERY AVIATION
VIA HYDROGEN WITHIN THIS DECADE.
THIS WORK DESERVES TO BE
ENCOURAGED JUST AS MUCH AS SOFT.
FURTHER. THE E U THE U. K AND
CHINA ARE ALL DEVELOPING
HYDROGEN POWERED AVIATION. IF US
LEGISLATORS CONTINUE TO
PRIORITIZE STAFFS TO THE
EXCLUSION OF ELECTRIC HYDROGEN
AND HYBRID AVIATION. WE RISK
BRINGING WE RISK LOSING AVIATION
AS AN INDUSTRY AND IN THE
THOUSANDS OF JOBS THAT
REPRESENTS TO EUROPE, CHINA AND
THE U. K. THIRD SIMPLY KEEP
DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING. WE
APPLAUD THE COMMITTEE'S EFFORTS
TO MAKE HYDROGEN REALITY IN
CALIFORNIA AND THE ROLE IT PLAYS
AS AN IMPORTANT VOICE GLOBALLY
IN THIS IMPORTANT ENERGY
TRANSITION. GOVERNOR NEWSOM'S
RECENT PRONOUNCEMENT TO GO BIZ
REGARDING HYDROGEN IS AN
IMPORTANT STATEMENT ON THE
STATE'S SERIOUSNESS TOWARDS
HYDROGEN. HOWEVER, WORDS ARE NOT
ENOUGH. CARBON IS AVIATION AND
OTHER HEAVY INDUSTRIES. WE NEED
HYDROGEN AND LEGISLATION
SUPPORTING ITS PRODUCTION, ITS
CONSUMPTION AND THOUGHTFUL
REGULATION. THIS COMMITTEE IS A
LEADING VOICE IN THIS FIGHT, AND
WE ARE HERE AS A CALIFORNIA
COMPANY TO SHOW WHAT CAN BE
ACCOMPLISHED. IF WE TAKE
HYDROGEN SERIOUSLY AND DON'T
LISTEN TO THE EXCUSES OF THOSE
THAT WOULD PREFER TO RETAIN THE
FOSSIL FUEL STATUS QUO. FOR
THAT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU FOR
THE OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TO YOU
TODAY AND THE CONTINUED EFFORTS
THROUGH REDUCE HUMANITY'S IMPACT
ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND RENEWABLE
HYDROGEN. I KNOW YOU HAVE
QUESTIONS YOU GOT TO HAVE. HMM
THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. YOU KNOW
THERE, IT'S UM WELL, FIRST OF
ALL, LET ME ASK LET ME TELL YOU,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING
HERE TODAY AND FOR SITTING
THROUGH OUR ENTIRE COMMITTEE.
CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT STAFFS ARE
SUSTAINABLE AVIATION FUELS, SO
THAT'S USING LIKE. GREECE'S OR
ALGAE, AND, UM, CHANGING THOSE
INTO FUELS THAT CAN BE USED FOR
OTHER GAMES IS IT'S THE FIRST
TIME I'VE HEARD THAT ACRONYM. SO
I APPRECIATE THAT. AND THEN I
THINK THE THING I'M REALLY
EXCITED ABOUT IS THE 2026 STATE
BECAUSE A BIG PART OF WHAT WE'RE
DOING IS WE'RE DRIVING TOWARDS.
AND UNKNOWN RIGHT AND VERY, VERY
QUICKLY. PEOPLE HAVE TO MAKE A
TRANSITION AWAY FROM USING, UM,
FUELS THAT, UM, DIESEL IN
PARTICULAR THAT, UM. THEIR THEIR
EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS ARE
DIESEL AND UNLESS WE DEVELOP A
AN ALTERNATIVE THAT CAN MOVE
VERY HEAVY EQUIPMENT. WE'RE
ASKING THEM TO DO SOMETHING THAT
IS IMPOSSIBLE. IN OTHER WORDS,
THEY HAVE TO GIVE UP VEHICLES
THAT THEY'VE SPENT HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR YEAH,
AND THE TECHNOLOGY IS NOT THERE
FOR THEM. IN IN IN ELECTRIC, UM
, ENVIRONMENT AND THAT'S ALL
WE'VE PLANNED FOR. REALLY? SO,
UM, A BIG PART OF BUT WE HAVE TO
DO IS GET SOMETHING. GOING THAT
PROVIDES US AN OPPORTUNITY TO
MOVE AIRPLANES AND HEAVY
VEHICLES AND THE GOODS. UM
ESPECIALLY FOR IN RURAL
CALIFORNIA. THE GOOD GOODS
MOVEMENT IS REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT. SO I'M EXCITED ABOUT
THE 2026 STATE. UM WHAT IS THE
DISTANCE THAT THAT YOUR TEST
FLIGHTS. UM INDICATE YOU CAN
MOVE A PASSENGER AIRLINE THAT
CAN CARRY 40 PEOPLE. WHAT'S
WHAT'S THE DISTANCE? SO THAT WE
CAN KIND OF GET IN OUR HEAD? HOW
HOW WE START WITH A SMALLER THE
SMALLER AIRPLANES, BUT
ULTIMATELY WE WE'VE GOT TO BE
ABLE TO MOVE PEOPLE IN LARGE
NUMBERS. AND SO THAT'S THAT'S
THE NEXT STEP. BUT HOW FAR CAN
YOU HOW? HOW LONG AIR TRAVEL CAN
YOU GET? YES. SO WE'RE FOCUSED
ON REGIONAL AIRCRAFT, WHICH ARE
APPROXIMATELY 500 MILES. UM SO
WE'RE FOCUSED ON FLIGHTS FROM
LOS ANGELES TO SACRAMENTO. GOOD.
LAS VEGAS PHOENIX. LONGER
FLIGHTS ARE POSSIBLE, BUT THAT
TAKES HYDROGEN COMBUSTION. YEAH,
THAT'S GREAT. WELL, THAT'S
THAT'S THE FIRST STEP. AND AS
WE'RE ASKING THE AIRLINES TO
DRIVE TRANSITION AS WELL, THIS
IS GOING TO BE WHAT THIS IS
GOING TO BE ONE OF THE
SOLUTIONS, SO I'M REALLY EXCITED
ABOUT IT. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. I
DON'T HAVE ANY MORE QUESTIONS
JUST HAVE COPIOUS NOTES.
EXCITED, POLICE SENATOR UM,
EXCUSE ME, KIND OF ALONG THE
LINES OF THE LATTER QUESTIONS
THAT SENATOR CABALLERO ASKED, UM
YOU'RE CONCENTRATING ON REGIONAL
AND SMALLER AIRPLANES. UH, AND
YOUR ANSWER ABOUT LONGER FLIGHTS
BEING COMBUST COMBUSTION
HYDROGEN. WOULD LEAD ME TO
CONCLUDE THEREFORE, THAT.
PERHAPS THE LARGE SCALE PLANES
COULD BE IN THE FUTURE THAT
WHICH BOEING AND AIRBUS MAKES.
BUT THAT PROBABLY HAS TO BE
COMBUSTION APPROACH. RIGHT IS
THAT AH, DO YOU SEE THAT AS A
PROBABILITY IN THE FUTURE? YES
DEFINITELY. I KNOW THERE ARE
OTHER COMPANIES, SOME IN RUSSIA.
I BELIEVE THAT ARE CURRENTLY
WORKING ON THOSE PROJECTS. OKAY
NOW WHEN YOU SAY HYDROGEN
COMBUSTION IS THAT A HYDROGEN
INTERNAL COMBUSTION HYDROGEN AND
ENGINE I AM NOT AN ENGINEER, SO
I'M NOT. I GUESS THE CORRECT
PERSON BE ASKING. THERE ARE SUCH
THINGS BMW DEVELOPED A V EIGHT
ENGINE THAT SOME YEARS AGO
THERE, NOT NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF
PRODUCING IT NOW, BUT THEY
CONVERTED A JUST TO CONVENTIONAL
GASOLINE ENGINE TO RUN ON BOTH
GASOLINE AND HYDROGEN. AS AN IN
CURRENT INTERNAL COMBUSTION
ENGINE. SO PERHAPS THAT'S THE
APPROACH. I DON'T KNOW. BUT BUT
BUT CLEARLY THE LARGER SCALE
AIRPLANES OUR INSIGHTS FOR THE
FUTURE, BUT PROBABLY FURTHER
OFF. GOOD. WHEN WAS ALL THANK
YOU SO MUCH. I'M INSPIRED. UH,
YOU KNOW YOU'RE SHOWING US THIS
AIRPLANE, BUT HERE'S MY
QUESTION. THE PAYLOAD IS THAT
WOULD IT BE CARRYING A NORMAL
PAYLOAD? THAT, UH. ANOTHER PLANE
THAT SIZE WOULD CARRY OR WHAT'S
WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? YES SO AS
YOU CAN SEE, ON THIS SIDE, WE
ARE SLIDING IN OUR MODULES THAT
GO JUST BETWEEN THE BACK ROW
SEATS AND THE LUGGAGE
COMPARTMENT AND TO DO SO WE HAVE
TO TAKE OUT ABOUT TWO ROWS OF
SEATS. UM BUT WE FIND THAT MOST
REGIONAL AIRCRAFT AREN'T OFTEN
FULLY AT CAPACITY, SO IT SHOULD
BE, UM, FAIRLY OKAY, SO THERE IS
A FUTURE FOR AVIATION AND
HYDROGEN. DEFINITELY AS YOU'VE
SEEN. WE HAVE ALREADY FLOWN OUR
AIRCRAFT. GOOD AH, WELL, I'M
GOING TO ASK YOU ONE THAT YOU
MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT ABOUT
HELICOPTERS. IS THAT SOMETHING
THAT YOU'VE LOOKED INTO, AS WELL
, UM NOT AT THIS POINT, BUT I
THINK WE'RE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR
OTHER VENTURES TO SPREAD
HYDROGEN. THE REASON I ASKED, IS
IT BE A SHORTER AREA FLIGHTS AND
THAT SORT OF THING, BUT WE'RE
EXCITED AND YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU
KNOW, YOUR PRESENTATION IS
RECORDED A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE
INDUSTRY WATCHING AND I THINK
THEY'RE ALL GOING TO BE EXCITED
ABOUT AVIATION AND CERTAINLY THE
FACT THAT YOU'RE LEADING THE
WAY. NO, THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. OKAY, UM. UP. NEXT
WILL BE MICHAEL LORD. AND
MICHAEL. THANK YOU FOR STANDING
BY WITH US, AND, UH, AS OUR LAST
PRESENTER I GOT TO SAY, REALLY.
THANK YOU. MICHAEL LORD,
EXECUTIVE ENGINEER AND TOYOTA'S
SUSTAINABILITY AND REGULATORY
AFFAIRS GROUP. MICHAEL'S BASE IN
LOS ANGELES AREA AND IT'S WORKED
FOR MORE THAN 35 YEARS AT
TOYOTA. AH AND ON REGULATORY AND
POLICY ISSUES, PHYSICS. DEGREE
IN THE UNIVERSITY OF
PENNSYLVANIA. MR LORD WELCOME,
AND YOU HAVE THE FLOOR. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. IT'S A PLEASURE
TO BE HERE TODAY AND I CHANGED
MY NOTES TO GOOD AFTERNOON. MY
NAME IS MICHAEL LORD AS SENATOR
MITCHELL AND AN EXECUTIVE
ENGINEER AT TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH
AMERICA. IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE
HERE TODAY TO TALK ABOUT. WE CAN
HAVE OUR PERSPECTIVE ON
HYDROGEN. NOW CALIFORNIA CAN
CREATE A SUSTAINABLE HYDROGEN
ECONOMY. UH, SINCE THERE'S BEEN
A LOT OF GOOD CONVERSATIONS ON
DIFFERENT USES OF HYDROGEN, AND
WE AGREE WITH A LOT OF THOSE
IT'S A REALLY A SITUATION WHERE
IT'S ALL OF THE ABOVE, AS IT
RELATES TO HEAVY DUTY VERSUS
LIGHT DUTY AND OTHER USAGE,
SINCE WE ARE A MOBILITY COMPANY
THAT FOCUSES ON LIGHT DUTY LIGHT
DUTY MARKET. MY COMMENTS WILL.
FOCUS ON THAT WHICH IS ABOUT 94%
OF THE APPROXIMATELY 30 MILLION
VEHICLES IN THE CALIFORNIA
FLEET. SO TRANSITIONING TO THAT
LARGE FLEET TO ZERO EMISSION
REQUIRES NOT JUST MEETING THE
NEEDS OF A PORTION OF THE
MARKET. BUT ALL THE DRIVERS,
INCLUDING THOSE THAT DO NOT HAVE
ACCESS TO CONVENIENT HOME
CHARGING. SO I KNOW THE SLIDES.
THE SLIDES ARE SCRUTINY OVER
THERE. UM, BUT I WOULD LIKE JUST
TO NOTE THAT. TOTAL BELIEVES AND
ALL OF THE ABOVE. VEHICLE
ELECTRIFICATION, AND WE ARE
CURRENTLY SELLING IN CALIFORNIA
. ALL THREE FLAVORS OF ELECTRIC
VEHICLES. WE HAVE BATTERY
ELECTRIC VEHICLES, PLUG IN
HYBRID ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND
FUEL CELL ELECTRIC VEHICLES. AND
WE BELIEVE ALL TECHNOLOGIES WILL
BE NECESSARY TO MEET THE NEEDS
OF ALL CUSTOMERS. BUT FOCUSING
ON HYDROGEN AND FUEL CELL
ELECTRIC VEHICLES. WE OFTEN HEAR
THE STATEMENT. THAT HYDROGEN
SHOULD BE USED FOR HARD TO
ELECTRIFY SECTORS AND THAT CAME
UP AGAIN TODAY. WE AGREE WITH
THAT. BUT WE ALSO THINK THAT
SHOULD INCLUDE HARD. USE CASES
THAT ARE HARD TO ELECTRIFY AS
WELL. SO THEY'RE HARD TO
ELECTRIFY USE CASES WITHIN THE
LIGHT DUTY SECTOR, AND WE TALKED
A LITTLE BIT. SOME OF THE
PRESENTERS TALKED ABOUT THAT AS
WELL, FOLKS THAT DON'T HAVE
ACCESS. EASY ACCESS TO HOME,
CHARGING WHERE PEOPLE THAT NEED
LONG DISTANCE DRIVING, ETCETERA.
SO IT'S NOT JUST A SECTOR BY
SECTOR, BUT IT'S ALSO USE CASES
WITHIN THE SECTOR. AND FUEL CELL
TECHNOLOGY WILL BE ESSENTIAL. IF
WE ARE TO HELP THE CARBON IS THE
LIGHT DUTY SECTOR IF WE WANT TO
MEET HER CLIMATE GOALS. THIS
VERY SMALL SLIDE. YOU SEE BACK
THERE JUST SHOWS. THAT WE DO
HAVE SIX VEHICLES IN THE
CALIFORNIA MARKET RIGHT NOW. THE
FUEL CELL ELECTRIC BUGLE, THE
PRIUS PRIME, THE RAV FOUR PRIME
AND THE NEXT 4 58, WHICH ARE
PLUG IN HYBRID ELECTRIC
VEHICLES, AND THE BZ AND THE RZ
BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLE. SO
WE'RE IN FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT
TECHNOLOGIES. AND I JUST WANTED
TO NOTE THE, UM FROM A CUSTOMER
PERSPECTIVE. YOU KNOW WHAT'S A
STRENGTH ON ONE SIDE IS ALSO A
WEAKNESS, DEPENDING ON THE
CUSTOMER'S SITUATION. SO BATTERY
ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND PLUG IN
HYBRID ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE
GREAT IF YOU HAVE CONVENIENT
HOME CHARGING UM, IT'S GREAT NOT
HAVING TO GO TO A GAS STATION OR
GO LESS OFTEN. BUT. THE NEGATIVE
IF YOU DON'T HAVE THAT IT'S A
VERY INCONVENIENT VEHICLE ME BE
ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO USE. THE
OTHER POSITIVE IN ONE REASON.
YOU SEE A LOT MORE OF THEM IS
THAT YOU CAN START THE MARKET
WITH JUST HOME CHARGING SLOWLY
BUILD OUT THE PUBLIC
INFRASTRUCTURE. AH! IT'S NOT
ESSENTIAL TO HAVE INTEREST,
PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE AND
ADVANCED ON THE OTHER HAND. THE
BIGGEST HURDLE FOR FUEL CELL
VEHICLES RIGHT NOW IS THE
INFRASTRUCTURE. YOU NEEDED AN
ADVANCE AND NEEDS TO BE RELIABLE
AND FUEL NEEDS TO BE AT A
COMPETITIVE COST. SO THAT'S ONE
OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES. THAT'S
SO THE FACT THAT IT HAS TO BE
PUBLIC. UM IS ONE OF THE KIND OF
THE DIFFICULTIES BUT IT'S ALSO
THE IMPORTANT POSITIVE FOR
PEOPLE THAT CAN CHARGE AT HOME.
SO EACH OF THEM DO HAVE EACH
TECHNOLOGY DOES HAVE AN
IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY AND WE
NEED TO SUPPORT ALL ALL THE
TECHNOLOGIES. THAT'S OUR VIEW. I
JUST WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT KIND OF WHERE FUEL CELLS
ARE STRONG, AND ONE OF THEM IS,
AS I MENTIONED THE FAST CENTRAL
UNIVERSAL FUELING IT'S JUST ONE
TYPE OF FUELING. ONE FAST SPEED
JUST LIKE FILLING A VEHICLE UP A
CONVENTION OF THE O CLOCK AT A
GAS STATION. VERY GOOD COLD
WEATHER PERFORMANCE. AH THE
THIRD PICTURE, WHICH IS HARD TO
SEE. I'M SURE BUT YOU KNOW WHERE
YOU DON'T HAVE PRIVATE PARKING
FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU PARK ON THE
STREET, YOU'RE IN AN APARTMENT
COMPLEX. PARTICULARLY IN OLDER
ONE OR IN A HOUSE THAT DOESN'T
HAVE UPGRADABLE PANEL. UM. I
FEEL SO ELECTRIC VEHICLES A
GREAT OPTION. ZERO EMISSION
OPTION FOR FOLKS AND IF DOWNTIME
. LONG DISTANCE DRIVING IS AN
ISSUE THEN FEEL SO. ELECTRIC
VEHICLES ARE VERY GOOD OPTION.
YOUR OMISSION OBJECT. I DO WANT
TO TOUCH UPON BEYOND LIKE DUTY,
AND I JUST WANTED TO NOTE THAT
AT LEAST IN TOYOTA'S
PERSPECTIVE, LIKE DUTY IS WHAT
DRIVES BEYOND LIGHT DUTY.
THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT HOW
TO SUPPLY HYDROGEN ADWORDS
STATIONS OUT AND WHERE TO GO.
AND WE AGREE THAT FOR EXAMPLE,
HEAVY DUTY VEHICLES DO, UM. HMM
YOU KNOW, I'M ONE EXAMPLE DO USE
A LOT OF HYDROGEN THAT WILL BE
VERY HELPFUL. AND BRINGING DOWN
GETTING SCALE IN THE HYDROGEN
MARKET AND BRINGING DOWN THE
COST OF HYDROGEN. BUT TO BRING
DOWN THE COST OF THE TECHNOLOGY
THAT FEELS HEALTH TECHNOLOGY. WE
DO NEED THE LIGHT DUTY MARKET.
THAT'S WHERE YOU GET THE
ECONOMIES OF SCALE WITH THE COST
REDUCTIONS OF THE TECHNOLOGY
ITSELF AS I MENTIONED 96% OF THE
VEHICLES ON THE ROAD ARE LIGHT
DUTY. SO THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT,
BUT GOING ON TO BEYOND LIKE
DUTY, SO TOYOTA HAS. THAT WILL
PRODUCE A HEAVY DUTY KIT BASED
UPON TWO MORE, AYE. FUEL CELL
STACKS. WILL GO INTO PRODUCTION
IN KENTUCKY FOR SALE FOR HEAVY
DUTY. WILLIAMS AND THAT CAME OUT
OF A PROJECT WE HAD AND THEN
PARTICIPATING IN HIS END OF
PROJECT IN THE PORT'S WITHIN
HYDROGEN FUEL CELL ELECTRIC
TRUCKS. WE ALSO HAVE PROJECTS
WITH PARTNERS ON YARD TRUCKS,
WHICH ARE USED AT PORTS AND ALSO
DISTRIBUTION FACILITIES, WHICH
USED ONE MARIE FUEL CELL STACK.
YOU DON'T NEED AS MUCH POWER AND
TOP HANDLERS. USE OR TOP LOADERS
USED IN THE PORTS AND MOVE
CONTAINERS. WE HAVE A SMALL
SCALE STATIONARY POWER. UH,
PROJECT AS YOU CAN SEE. IN THIS
SLIDE. THIS WAS ACTUALLY THE
ELPIDA RUNNING THE SCOREBOARD OR
WHATEVER THEY CALL THAT
LEADERBOARD. AND THAT RUNS ON
ONE FUEL CELL SYSTEM. AND WE
HAVE A PROJECT WITH HANDRAIL IN
COLORADO. UH FOR A MEGA WHAT
SCALE FUEL CELL SYSTEM. THIS HAS
24 FUEL CELLS. MARIE FEELS HOLES
IN IT TO DO A MEGAWATT WORTH OF
POWER. THE PROJECT ISN'T SO TOO.
IT IS PROVIDING THAT PART.
THERE'S OTHER THEN IT WILL BE
FROM WIND ACCESS, WIND AND
COLORADO. UM SO THERE'S MANY
DIFFERENT USES OF FUEL CELL. BUT
AS I MENTIONED, STARTING FROM
LIKE, DUTY IS VERY KEY. I WANT
TO THANK EVERYONE CHAIR IN THE
COMMITTEE MEMBERS FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TODAY. I
THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO
KEEP IN MIND MANY DIFFERENT
GOALS WE HAVE IN CALIFORNIA. WE
DO HAVE VERY IMPORTANT TO REDUCE
POLLUTION AND. CARBON FROM THE
PORTAL, AND WE AGREE WITH THAT.
THAT'S HOW WE GOT INTO THE HEAVY
DUTY DRAINAGE TRUCK PROJECT. BUT
WE ALSO DO HAVE A GOAL OF 100%
ELECTRIFICATION. FOR NEW
VEHICLES IN 2035, SO WE NEED TO
CONTINUE DOWN THAT PATHWAY. UM
YEAH. AND WHAT'S VERY IMPORTANT
TO DO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WE NEED
TO CONTINUE TO BUILD OUT THE
HYDROGEN INFRASTRUCTURE MARKET
AND YOU COST REDUCTION OF THE
HYDROGEN, WHICH I THINK ARCHES
AND THE OTHER PROJECTS WILL BE
VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP. PROVIDE
THAT. AND I THINK THAT'S JUST MY
COMMENTS. I WANTED TO MAKE THEM
SHORT. SINCE WE'RE KIND OF LONG
IN THE SESSION HERE, HAVE ANY
QUESTIONS OR SURE. THANK YOU, MR
LORD. RETURN THE PANEL. YES,
SENATOR. SO YOU'RE NOT BASED
HERE IN SACRAMENTO, SO HE HAD TO
TRAVEL TO GET HERE AND WE'RE
THANKFUL FOR THAT. UM POLITICS
IS MY ADVOCATION. MY VOCATION IS
THE RETAIL AUTOMOBILE BUSINESS.
I'M I'M A CAR DEALER, UH, PART
OWNER OF A LOCAL GROUP. WE
REPRESENT 10 MANUFACTURERS, AND
UNFORTUNATELY ONE OF THEM ISN'T
TOYOTA. BUT BUT I WILL SAY THAT
I FOLLOW THE NEWS AND THE
INDUSTRY AND, UH, I ADMIRE
TOYOTA FOR TAKING THE ALL OF ALL
OF THE ABOVE APPROACH TO THE
MANUFACTURING OF YOUR OF YOUR
POWER PLANTS. MORE SO THAN, AS.
THE ASIAN MANUFACTURERS APPEAR
TO BE MORE OPEN TO, UH,
APPROACHES OTHER THAN JUST
BATTERIES. AS WE PHASE OUT OF
FOSSIL FUELS. I'M I'M HOPEFUL
THAT OTHERS WILL. BUT TOYOTA HAS
SHOWN LEADERSHIP IN THAT AREA
AND I'VE EVER ADMIRED WANTS YOU
TO KNOW THAT I'VE ADMIRED THAT.
IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT. UH YOU
MENTIONED FUEL CELLS EXCLUSIVELY
AS TOYOTA WORKED AT ALL ON
INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINES,
UTILIZING HYDROGEN AND WHAT'S
THE PLUS OR MINUS OF THOSE
DIFFERENT APPROACHES? SO I THINK
OCULAR TOYOTA HAD SOME AND WE
HAD AN ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT DOING
RACE CARS WITH RACE CARS WITH UM
INTERNAL COMBUSTION HYDROGEN
VEHICLES. THERE COULD BE A ROLE
FOR THAT IN THE RACE SECTOR, AND
THERE COULD BE A ROLE FOR THAT.
AH THE DIFFICULTY IS THAT IT'S
NOT ZERO EMISSION. YOU DO HAVE
NOX PRODUCTION AND THE VEHICLES
THEMSELVES ONE OF THE BENEFITS
OF FUEL SELLERS. IT'S HIGHLY
EFFICIENT. SO YOU LOSE THAT. BUT
IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT ZERO
EMISSION MAYBE THE KEY IS STILL
FUEL CELL, BUT WE THINK ALSO
THERE COULD BE SOME ROLE TO PLAY
UNDEFINED ROLE AT THIS POINT FOR
INTERNAL COMBUSTION HYDROGEN
DOES REQUIRE, I THINK IS ONE OF
THE OTHER PANELISTS MENTIONED.
MODIFICATIONS VEHICLE, BUT IT'S
NOT THAT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.
THAT'S BMW DID HAVE INTERNAL
COMBUSTION ENGINES THAT COULD,
AND I DROVE ONE ABOUT 12 15
YEARS AGO. IT WAS A VERY
INTERESTING EXPERIENCE. I DON'T
KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH
THAT NOW, EVEN THOUGH I'M A BMW
DEALER, BUT AT ANY RATE, I THANK
YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION AND FOR
TOYOTA'S LEADERSHIP AND THIS
AREA. THANK YOU. I HAVE A
QUESTION ABOUT APPRECIATE YOUR
PRESENTATION AND THE WORK THAT
YOU'RE DOING THAT, UM THAT'S UM
CREATING AN OPPORTUNITY. I THINK
FOR US TO LOOK AT HYDROGEN A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. UM AND
THE PROJECT THAT YOU HAVE IN
COLORADO WITH THE FUEL CELLS IS
THAT. IS THAT IT LIKE A BATTERY
IT AS WE THINK OF BATTERY ENERGY
, WHERE YOU CAN TAKE IT FROM
EITHER WIND OR OR SOLAR AND THEN
STORE IT AND THEN USE IT WHEN
YOU NEED IT WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE
SOLAR OR WIND ENERGY, SO THERE'S
DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE PROJECT.
WE ARE SUPPLYING THE GENERATION.
SIDES OF THE. THE PROJECT ITSELF
. I'M NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN
IT IS TO TAKE WIND POWER. WITH
ELECTROLYZERS, WHICH IS A
DIFFERENT PIECE OF MACHINERY TO
MAKE HYDROGEN. THE STORE THAT
AND THEN OUR MEGAWATT, UM,
GENERATOR FROM THE FUEL SELLERS
TAKING THAT HYDROGEN AND PUTTING
IT BACK INTO THE GRID FOR
ELECTRICITY. BUT THAT THAT'S
EXCITING BECAUSE IT WE'VE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT BATTERY STORAGE
AND, UM, AND IT'S A FORM OF
BATTERY STORAGE AND PART OF THE
PART OF THE CHALLENGE AS WE'VE
TALKED ABOUT HYDROGEN IS THAT,
UM YOU KNOW WHAT? I HAD THE
OPPORTUNITY TO GO ON A TRIP TO
DENMARK. UM AND TO STUDY WHAT
THEY'RE DOING WITH ENERGY, AND
THEY'VE GOT THESE PROCESSES
WHERE THEY THEY TAKE THE OUTPUT
FROM ONE. THEY PUT IT IN, STORE
IT AND THEN THEY USE IT FOR
SOMETHING ELSE, AND THEY CREATED
THIS SYNERGISTIC VILLAGE IF YOU
WILL OF INDUSTRIAL OPPORTUNITIES
WHERE THE WASTE OF ONE IS USED
FOR THE OR THE OVERPRODUCTION,
IN SOME INSTANCES, IS USED FOR
ANOTHER APPLICATION. AND TO ME
IT'S FASCINATING BECAUSE, FOR
EXAMPLE, THEY ARE TAKING TRASH.
AND THEY ARE NOT LAND FILLING
ANY OF THEIR TRASH AND THEY'RE
USING IT. THEY'RE USING A
PROCESS TO BE ABLE TO, UM TAKE
THAT CONVERTED TO ENERGY, AND
YOU CAN LIVE RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO
IT AND NOT KNOW THAT IT'S AN
INDUSTRIAL FACILITY, OTHER THAN
THE FACT THAT IT'S A BIG
BUILDING THE ABILITY TO GET RID
OF OUR TRASH WHETHER THAT FROM
SOLID WASTE OR THAT THE STUFF WE
THROW IN A TRASH CAN OR THE
MANURE FROM A DAIRY FARM OR THE
CUTTINGS FROM A VINEYARD AND NOT
HAVE THAT SITTING AROUND, UM
CREATING METHANE IS REALLY
INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. AND IF YOU
CAN ADD HYDROGEN TO THE THAT
THE, UM. TO THE ABILITY TO BE
ABLE TO CONVERT ALL OF THIS AND
THEN STABILIZE THE GRID. IT IS
REALLY, CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. I
THINK THE WORK THAT YOU'RE DOING
IN TERMS OF IN PARTNERSHIP WITH
OTHER ORGANIZATIONS IS REALLY,
UM HIS TERRIFIC, SO APPRECIATE
YOUR PRESENTATION. THE ONE
QUESTION I HAVE IS IF CALIFORNIA
COULD DO ONE THING DIFFERENTLY,
OR MAKE CHANGES TO SOMETHING.
WHAT WHAT WOULD THAT BE? AND HOW
WOULD THAT HELP WHAT YOU'RE
TRYING TO DO? WE HAVE THE
VEHICLES THAT CUSTOMERS LOVE. BY
THE WAY I HAVE A TOYOTA SO
TONIGHT AND I LOVE I LOVE MY
TOYOTA DEALER. I MEAN, NO
DISRESPECT TO MY COLLEAGUE HERE.
YEAH, OKAY. BUT THE MORE I READ
THE FUEL CELL VEHICLE. PEOPLE
LOVE THE VEHICLE. THE ISSUE
REALLY IS IN BEING ABLE TO FILL
IT. SO WHATEVER WE CAN DO TO ONE
OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS
TO CONTINUE THE FUNDING FOR
LIGHT DUTY HYDROGEN
INFRASTRUCTURE, AND PROBABLY THE
SECOND ONE IS TO FIGURE OUT HOW
TO YOU KNOW, AND I THINK ARCHES
IS GOING TO BE VERY IMPORTANT TO
REDUCE THE COST. HAVE HYDROGEN
ITSELF IS JUST TOO EXPENSIVE
RIGHT NOW, OR PLAYERS IN THE
MARKET WILL HELP. UM FOR EXAMPLE
, YOU KNOW, TAX INCENTIVES OR
REDUCTIONS AND EQUIPMENT MIGHT
BE USEFUL AS WELL FOR THE
PRODUCTION OF HYDROGEN. THINGS
LIKE THAT. I'M NOT TIRED IS NOT
IN THE PRODUCTION SIDE. BUT YOU
KNOW OUR CUSTOMERS USE THE
HYDROGEN, AND THAT'S PROBABLY
THE TWO BIGGEST ISSUES ARE THE
STATION. BOTH THE NUMBERS AND
THE CAPACITY AND RELIABILITY AND
YOU KNOW THE COST OF HYDROGEN.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU.
MR LORD, I WILL TELL YOU THAT.
YOU'RE RIGHT. UM, I KNOW A
COUPLE OF FRIENDS. GOOD CLOSE
FRIENDS THAT DRIVE THE FUEL CELL
BATTERY TOYOTA. THEY LOVE IT.
THEY LOVE IT, AND YOU'RE RIGHT.
THEY'RE ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT
YOU KNOW THEY GOT THE STATIONS,
BUT THEY'RE STILL CONCERNED WHEN
I GET THERE TOO LATE. WHATEVER
SO THAT'S AN ISSUE. BUT DOESN'T
THAT LEND THAT MAYBE TOYOTA
SHOULD BE A PARTNER WITH
INFRASTRUCTURE? AND IF THAT'S
YOUR CONCERN, SO HYPOTHETICALLY,
IF YOU CAN BUILD 15 MORE
STATIONS AND YOU COULD PARTNER
WITH THAT ENTITY THAT GIVES YOU
50 MORE, WHICH WILL OPEN THE
DOOR FOR MORE PRODUCTION IN THE
IN THE CARS THAT YOU HAVE IN THE
DOCKS. SO WOULD YOU CONSIDER
THAT. YOU WERE EXPERTS IN MAKING
VEHICLES MET AND FIRST ELEMENT
ARE EXPERTS IN BUILDING STATIONS
. WE WORK TOGETHER. WE THINK
THAT'S THE BEST WAY TO CONTINUE
, BUT THANK YOU. I'LL BRING THAT
BACK TO OUR INFRASTRUCTURE,
FOLKS. THAT'S NOT MY, BUT THAT'S
A GOOD POINT. YEAH THAT WOULD
MAKE SENSE. YOU KNOW THAT WOULD
DO THAT. BUT I WILL TELL YOU
CONTINUE DOING WHAT YOU'RE
DOING. WE WILL CONTINUE TRYING
TO BRING RECOGNITION HERE FOR
THE FUEL CELL BATTERY
AUTOMOBILES THAT YOU PRODUCE,
AND I WOULD THANK YOU FOR YOUR
LEADERSHIP. THANK YOU. THANK YOU
MUCH FOR YOUR SUPPORT AS WELL.
THANK YOU. AND THAT CONCLUDES
OUR OUR SPEAKERS. LADIES AND
GENTLEMEN, SO NOW WE'RE GOING TO
GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP THE PHONE
LINES AND WE'RE GOING TO ASK
PEOPLE HERE IN THE AUDIENCE. IF
THEY'D LIKE TO COME UP, SO LET
ME GO AHEAD AND MAKE THE
ANNOUNCEMENT. THANK YOU ONCE
AGAIN FOR EVERYONE THAT
PARTICIPATED TODAY AND WE INVITE
THE GENERAL PUBLIC. WANTING TO
PARTICIPATE TO CALL IN NOW. AND
OUR TO FREE NUMBER IS 8772. AND
WHEN PROMPTED, PLEASE USE THE
CODE 1618051 LET ME SAY IT AGAIN
. USE THE CODE 1618051, AND NOW
WE WILL OPEN IT UP TO THOSE ARE
HERE IN THE ROOM AND 2200 AND
WE'RE GOING TO TRY AND SHORTEN
IT DOWN TO ABOUT TWO MINUTES. SO
PLEASE YOUR NAME AND
ORGANIZATION AND YOUR COMMENTS.
MCHALE SCHOLARLY HERE ON BEHALF
OF THE CALIFORNIA HYDROGEN
COALITION AND THE CALIFORNIA
BUSINESS COUNCIL ONCE EXTEND OUR
APPRECIATION TO THE COMMITTEE
AND PARTICULARLY YOUR CHIEF
STAFF TACKLER FOR PUTTING THIS
TOGETHER. I THINK WE HEARD A
COUPLE OF THEMES THROUGHOUT
TODAY. UH ONE. THE INDUSTRY'S
HERE TO PAREE HELP WITH CARBON
NEUTRALITY AND DECARBONIZATION
OF CALIFORNIA'S ECONOMY,
PRINCIPALLY THROUGH, UH FOCUS ON
CARBON INTENSITY TO HELP US
REDUCE THE CARBON INTENSITY A
FUELS AND ENERGY AND STATE OF
CALIFORNIA AS A GOOD FOCUS FOR
RENEWABLE AND CLEAN HYDROGEN
PRODUCTION FACILITY, SENDING THE
RIGHT SIGNAL FOR INVESTMENT.
ADDITIONALLY SENATOR NILO YOU
MENTIONED EUROPEAN AUTO
MANUFACTURERS STILL LANTUS BMW
BMW HAD THREE X FIVE IN THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA TWO WEEKS
AGO. MAKING THE ROAD TOUR SO
THEY ARE COMING AND THEY'RE FUEL
CELL. THE CEO OF DS HAS BEEN
VERY ADAMANT THAT YOU MIGHT BE
ABLE TO GET 60% IN, UH IN YEARS
, CERTAIN EUROPEAN CITIES OF
VEHICLES AS BATTERY, BUT THE
OTHER 40% IS GOING TO BE BE FEEL
SO AND SO. SO WE SEE THAT
COMING. THE PARIS AUTO SHOW HAD
AN OFFERING OF 23 VEHICLES FROM
PEUGEOT TO RENAULT BMW INCLUDED
. SO WE'RE SEEING LAND ROVER AND
THE TOP TATA MANUFACTURERS GOING
THAT WAY, AND SO THEY'RE ALL
FOLLOWING THE YOUR THE ASIAN
COMPANIES WITH HYUNDAI HONDA AND
TOYOTA. IT'S ALL HAPPENING HERE
PRETTY QUICKLY, BUT WE'RE SEEING
PRETTY STRONG SIGNALS THERE. UM
JUST AS IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT
THAT TATA BEING AN INDIAN
COMPANIES THAT OWNS JAGUAR AND
LAND ROVER. A LOT OF PEOPLE
BRITISH BRANDS. YES YES, BUT BUT
WE ARE SEEING KIND OF THE VANS
AND OTHER COMMERCIAL TAXI FLEET
IN PARIS. SO THIS IS ALL
HAPPENING. WE ARE IN THE EARLY
DAYS THAT BEING SAID, WE'VE GOT
TO PROP UP THE INFRASTRUCTURE
THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE SUPPLY
CHAIN FROM THE PRODUCTION OF
CLEAN HYDROGEN. THROUGH THE
DISTRIBUTION AND TO THE RETAIL
STATIONS AND BEFORE YOU GUYS
BEFORE THE END OF SESSION, WE
HAVE THE CLEAN TRANSPORTATION
PROGRAM REAUTHORIZATION. WE LOOK
FORWARD TO CONTINUE WORKING WITH
YOU LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUE TO
WORK WITH SENATOR CABALLERO ON
GETTING THE RIGHT SIGNALS FOR
PRODUCTION AND CLEAN HYDROGEN,
THE BILL TO PRODUCE IT FROM
BIOMASS AND BIOGAS AS WELL AS
THE TERRORIST NECESSARY TO DO
ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN COST SO
APPRECIATE THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
NEXT UP. GOOD AFTERNOON, JULIA
LEVIN WITH THE BIOENERGY
ASSOCIATION OF CALIFORNIA. THANK
YOU FOR THIS HEARING. I WANT TO
ECHO MANY OF THE COMMENTS MADE
EARLIER. WE DO NEED THE
LEGISLATURE HOPEFULLY EARLY NEXT
YEAR, ARCHULETTA, HOPEFULLY OF
REPEATED AS BASIC 63. WE NEED
THE LEGISLATURE TO DEFINE WHAT
IS RENEWABLE OR GREEN HYDROGEN
TO SEND CLEAR LONG TERM MARKET
SIGNALS. AND WE URGE YOU TO
INCLUDE IN THAT DEFINITION, ALL
RPS ELIGIBLE FEEDSTOCKS,
INCLUDING BIOMASS AND BIOGAS
THAT ARE CONVERTED DIRECTLY TO
HYDROGEN, WHICH ISN'T MUCH MORE
EFFICIENT, LESS EXPENSIVE AND
LOWER POLLUTION THAN HAVING IT
PRODUCE ELECTRICITY FIRST AND
THEN ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN,
BIOMASS AND BIOMASS BIOGAS ARE
CRITICAL AS FEEDSTOCKS BECAUSE
THEY REDUCE SHORT LIVED CLIMATE
POLLUTANTS, THE ONLY CLIMATE
MEASURES THAT WILL COOL THE
CLIMATE IN THE NEXT SEVERAL
DECADES. IT IS ABSOLUTELY
CRITICAL AND CLIMATE SCIENTISTS
AROUND THE WORLD AGREE THAT THE
REDUCTION OF SHORT LIVED CLIMATE
POLLUTANTS LIKE METHANE AND
BLACK CARBON THAT ARE
OVERWHELMINGLY EMITTED FROM
ORGANIC WASTE THAT WE HAVE TO
MAKE THOSE REDUCTIONS RIGHT AWAY
. HYDROGEN FROM ORGANIC WASTE,
BIOMASS AND BIOGAS IS ALSO THE
ONLY FORM OF HYDROGEN THAT COULD
BE CARBON NEGATIVE AND
INVESTMENTS IN ORGANIC WASTE TO
ENERGY ARE BY FAR THE MOST COST
EFFECTIVE CLIMATE INVESTMENTS
THE STATE HAS MADE ACCORDING TO
BOTH THE LEGISLATIVE ANALYST AND
THE AIRPORT SO WE NEED A
DEFINITION OF RENEWABLE HYDROGEN
THAT INCLUDES BIOMASS AND BIOGAS
. WE DO NEED MORE INCENTIVES.
THE ELECTRICITY SECTOR IS
DECADES AHEAD OF HYDROGEN AND
OTHER FORMS OF RENEWABLE GAS. WE
NEED TO CATCH UP. WE DO NEED
PERMITS. STREAMLINING THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, SENATOR CABALLERO FOR
THAT, AND WE NEED PROCUREMENT
PROGRAMS. CLEAR MARKET SIGNALS.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU
FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. NEXT UP.
MY NAME'S JANICE LYNN. I'M HERE
FROM THE GREEN HYDROGEN
COALITION WOULD LIKE TO FIRST.
THANK ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR
LEADERSHIP ON THIS IMPORTANT
TOPIC. CALIFORNIA CAN INDEED
ESTABLISH A SUSTAINABLE AND
ROBUST, CLEAN HYDROGEN ECONOMY,
AND IT'S THANKS TO YOUR
LEADERSHIP AND THERE'S CERTAIN
THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TODAY THAT
I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT HAVE
BEEN ECHOED BY THE OTHER
SPEAKERS AND SPEAKERS BEFORE ME.
I WANT TO START BY SAYING THAT,
UM IT'S ABOUT MARKET CERTAINTY.
RIGHT AND THE ONE THING THAT I
THINK WE HEARD FROM JUST ABOUT
EVERY SPEAKER IS THAT THE FUEL
SUPPLY IS KEY IF WE WANT TO MOVE
AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS, WE NEED
SOMETHING THAT'S SCALABLE
ASSURED. CAN BE DELIVERED AT
VERY YOU KNOW, COST COMPETITIVE
PRICES. RENEWABLE HYDROGEN CAN
ACHIEVE THAT. HOW DO WE ACHIEVE
THIS? WE SOLVE FOR THE FUEL
SUPPLY. OUR THESIS IS THAT
HISTORY WILL JUST TAKE CARE OF
ITSELF RIGHT? BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE
FASTER ADOPTION. AND SO KEY TO
ACHIEVING THAT FUEL SUPPLY IS
MARKET CERTAINTY. I WANT TO ECHO
THE COMMENTS BY MY PROCEEDINGS.
SPEAKER JULIE 11. WE ARE BLESSED
WITH SO MANY RENEWABLE
RESOURCES. WIND SOLAR ORGANIC
WASTE OF SO MANY TYPES, WHICH IN
THEMSELVES CAN CREATE OTHER
POLLUTION. THESE RESOURCES CAN
BE USED TO MAKE COST EFFECTIVE,
RENEWABLE HYDROGEN. WITH A SHORT
SUPPLY AND THAT WILL HELP US IN
ALL OF THESE APPLICATIONS AND IN
THE INTEREST OF TIME BECAUSE
WE'VE GOT SOMEBODY WHO WANTS THE
ROOM. OKAY SO I'LL BE SUPER
QUICK AND I'LL WRAP UP. YOU HAVE
PEOPLE ON THE INTERIOR. OKAY
PLEASE. SORRY SORRY. I'LL BE
SUPER QUICK. THE OTHER KEY THING
AGAIN WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A
SHORT SUPPLY AND GETTING IT
THERE AT LOW COST. THE TRANSPORT
AND DELIVERY INFRASTRUCTURE IS
SO KEY AND WE'VE STUDIED THIS
MANY DIFFERENT WAYS AND HAVE
COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT
HYDROGEN PIPELINES ARE
ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. AND THEN
THE THIRD POINT IS, WE NEED TO
ACCELERATE THE DEVELOPMENT OF
THAT PIPELINE SYSTEM ONCE YOU
CAN HAVE DELIVERY THROUGH
PIPELINE, IT WILL UNLOCK ALL OF
THESE APPLICATIONS, AND SO THAT
WILL LIKELY REQUIRE PERMITTING
REFORM. THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR
LEADERSHIP, AND WE'RE HERE TO
HELP IN ANY WAY WE CAN. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. NEXT STEP. GOOD
AFTERNOON, GABRIELLA FOSTER WITH
THIS YEAR CLUB CALIFORNIA I'LL
TRY TO MAKE THIS QUICK. I JUST
WANTED TO NOTE THAT HOW CRUCIAL
IT IS THAT OUR LEGISLATURE NOT
FOCUSED ON HYDROGEN AS THE SOLE
SOLUTION TO THE ISSUES WE FACE
FOR CALIFORNIA'S TRANSITION TO A
CLEAN ENERGY ECONOMY, HYDROGEN
PRODUCTIONS, ENERGY INTENSIVE
AND INEFFICIENT NATURE IS A
CRITICAL CONCERN TO
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
COMMUNITIES. BUT ACTION THROUGH
FOSSIL FUEL USE PERPETUATES
DIRECT GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS
IMPEDING CALIFORNIA'S PROGRESS
TOWARDS ACHIEVING OUR CLIMATE
GOALS AND IN THE TRANSPORTATION
SECTOR, SPECIFICALLY LIGHT DUTY
AND MEDIUM DUTY VIDEO VEHICLES
IS MORE EFFICIENT TO USE OUR
RENEWABLE ENERGY DIRECTLY WITH
ELECTRIC VEHICLES AND
ELECTRIFIED PUBLIC TRANSIT
SYSTEMS. HOWEVER IF WE ARE TO
PUSH FORWARD WITH A TRULY
CLEANER HYDROGEN MARKET STRATEGY
, THERE IS A MORE EFFICIENT
WINDOW TO INCREASE IN
INCENTIVIZING MARKET FOR
ELECTROLYZER MANUFACTURING IN
CALIFORNIA, THIS WILL NOT ONLY
CREATE A MARKET FOR END TO END
ZERO EMISSION HYDROGEN BUT ALSO
REDUCE COSTS. OF TECHNOLOGY AND
CREATE A COMPETITIVE MARKET FOR
CLEANER HYDROGEN. FURTHERMORE IT
WILL CREATE MANY OPPORTUNITIES
FOR SUSTAINABLE JOBS AND
WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS
FOR A JUST TRANSITION FOR
HYDROGEN INDUSTRY WORKERS AND
JUST VERY QUICKLY TO ADDRESS THE
COMMENT MADE BY ENVIRONMENTAL
JUSTICE MADE ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL
JUSTICE AND NOT EXPECTING
DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES TO
HAVE THE MEANS TO ADJUST THEIR
LIVES TO ELECTRIC VEHICLES. IF
WE WANT TO DISCUSS ENVIRONMENTAL
JUSTICE AND ACCESSIBILITY TO
THESE DISADVANTAGED COMMUNITIES
, SPECIFICALLY, WE WOULD NEED TO
FOCUS ON THE BARRIERS THAT DON'T
ALLOW THESE COMMUNITIES TO
PROGRESS, THE LEVEL THAT THEY
SHOULD BE PROGRESSING AT. WE'LL
SEE MANY OPPORTUNITIES IN THIS
TO ELECTRIFY COMMUNITIES AS A
WHOLE, UM AN INFRASTRUCTURE
PROJECTS PROGRAMS TO MAKE TVS
AND MORE, MUCH MORE ACCESSIBLE.
HYDROGEN WILL JUST BE ANOTHER
BARRIER, NOT ALLOWING THEM TO
PROGRESS AS QUICKLY AS OTHER
PARTS OF THE STATES ARE AND WILL
CONTINUE TO BE CREATING MORE
DEAD ZONES FOR AN ALREADY
INCREASE IN DEMAND FOR LIGHT
DUTY. MEDIUM DUTY ELECTRIC
VEHICLES WILL ONLY PERPETUATE
FURTHER ENVIRONMENTAL
INJUSTICES. THANK YOU. GOOD
AFTERNOON, MR CHAIR MEMBERS OF
THE COMMITTEE. MY NAME IS I'M
HERE ON BEHALF OF A COMPANY
CALLED H CYCLE, RENEWABLE
HYDROGEN DEVELOPER. THE VP OF
GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS,
UNFORTUNATELY, HAD TO STEP OUT
SOME STEPPING IN ON HIS BEHALF.
UM FIRST OF ALL, I'D LIKE TO
THANK STAFF AND THE COMMITTEE
FOR THIS GREAT INFORMATIONAL
HEARING. H CYCLE IS DEDICATED TO
TAKING ORGANIC WASTE AND
CONVERTING IT INTO HYDROGEN AS A
DEVELOPER CYCLE WILL HAVE A
NUMBER OF SITES THROUGHOUT
CALIFORNIA TO BE ABLE TO TAKE
THE ORGANIC FRACTION OF
MUNICIPAL SOLID WASTE AS WELL AS
AGRICULTURAL WASTE AND OTHER
WASTE PRODUCTS TO CONVERT THAT
INTO RENEWABLE HYDROGEN IN A
REALLY COMPETITIVE WAY TO
DELIVER TOWARDS THE HEAVY DUTY
TRUCKING INDUSTRY. SO REALLY
APPRECIATE ALL THE COMMENTS. I
WON'T BELABOR THE POINTS THAT
MUCH LONGER, BUT I ALSO WANTED
TO STATE THAT IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT TO KEEP PERSPECTIVE ON
THE NEED TO FOCUS ON GOOD PAYING
JOBS, AND AS A RESULT CYCLE HAS
A STATEWIDE MOU WITH THE
BUILDING TRADES, BUT ANY
FACILITIES IT BUILDS WILL USE,
UM, PROJECT LABOR AGREEMENT, SO
WE NOT ONLY ARE THEY COMMITTED
TO BEING A PART OF THE
ENVIRONMENTAL SOLUTION IN
SOLVING FOR THE FOSSILIZED IN
OUR ECONOMY. UM BUT ALSO AT THE
SAME TIME, ENSURING THAT WE HAVE
GOOD PAYING JOBS FOR THE FUTURE
OF OUR RESIDENTS. THANK YOU. MR
CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS JOHN WINGER ON
BEHALF OF THE COALITION FOR
RENEWABLE NATURAL GAS,
APPRECIATE THAT HEARING AND ALL
THE COMMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN
MADE, I THINK THE COMMON THEME
WE WOULD SUPPORT THE COMMON
THEME TODAY OF LOOKING AT ALL
PATHWAYS AND ALL FORMS OF
RENEWABLE HYDROGEN. AS WE MOVE
FORWARD AS IT WAS MENTIONED,
THIS IS VERY NASCENT INDUSTRY
AND SO HAVING RESTRICTIVE
DEFINITION WOULD BE HARMFUL TO
THE FUTURE AND SO WE WOULD
SUPPORT A MORE INCLUSIVE
DEFINITION THAT FOCUSES ON
CARBON INTENSITY THAT FOCUSES ON
ALL RENEWABLE FORMS OF HYDROGEN
, WITH ALL DIFFERENT FEEDSTOCKS
AVAILABLE AND LOOK FORWARD TO
CONTINUING THE CONVERSATIONS AS
WE MOVE FORWARD. THANK YOU. AND
MR CHAIR MARK FINSTER MAKER HERE
ON BEHALF OF EARTH JUSTICE.
THANK YOU. SO MUCH FOR THE
PRESENTATIONS AND THE DISCUSSION
HERE THIS MORNING INTO THE
AFTERNOON. EARTH JUSTICE DOES
WANT TO SEE THE DEVELOPMENT OF
HYDROGEN AS WE SEE THE POTENTIAL
FOR THIS FUEL TO REPLACE DIRTY
FOSSIL BASED FUELS IN CERTAIN
SECTORS OF OUR ECONOMY, BUT WE
MUST PUT OUR HYDROGEN
DEVELOPMENT ON A PATHWAY THAT
DELIVERS REAL CLIMATE
ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS. ALMOST
ALL HYDROGEN THAT INDUSTRY
PRODUCES TODAY COMES FROM FOSSIL
FUELS AND RELIES ON INDUSTRIAL
PROCESSES THAT POLLUTE
NEIGHBORING COMMUNITIES WHICH
ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY DAX STATE
POLICIES TO SUPPORT HYDROGEN
DEVELOPMENT SHOULD PROVIDE CLEAR
POLICY DIRECTION TO TRANSITION
FROM TODAY'S POLLUTING PRACTICES
TO PRODUCING ZERO EMISSION
HYDROGEN AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVES IN OUR
DND SHOULD BE FOCUSED IN ON THE
DEPLOYMENT OF ZERO EMISSION
HYDROGEN AS MENTIONED EARLIER
AND WE THINK THAT INVESTING IN
ELECTROLYTIC HYDROGEN USING
ELECTROLYZERS, POWERED BY ZERO
EMISSION ENERGY RESOURCES IS THE
WAY FORWARD TOWARD ACHIEVING
CALIFORNIA'S CLIMATE AND AIR
QUALITY GOALS. LASTLY AS
POLICIES FOCUSED ON N USE. WE
REALLY SHOULD BE LOOKING AT
THOSE SECTORS THAT ARE THE MOST
HARD TO ELECTRIFY AND DE
CARBONIZED, VERY ENCOURAGING TO
HEAR THE UNIVERSAL HYDROGEN
PRESENTATION ON AVIATION. THAT'S
WHERE WE SHOULD REALLY BE
FOCUSING THIS AND USE BECAUSE IT
IS SO ENERGY INTENSIVE TO
PRODUCE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
NEXT UP. MHM WAS GONNA DO THAT.
ALREADY OKAY? I'D LIKE TO THANK
EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED DAY.
UH IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TESTIFY
THE YEAR THAT TELEPHONE
CONFERENCE ARE WE GOING TO GO
AHEAD AND DO THAT? ARE WE GOING
TO? OKAY HERE'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA
DO HAVE GOT TO APOLOGIZE WERE
RUN OUT OF TIME. SO THOSE OF YOU
WHO HAVE CALLED IN PLEASE, YOU
WOULD HAVE TO SUBMIT YOUR
COMMENTS IN WRITING. AND UH
PLEASE VISIT OUR WEBSITE FOR
YOUR COMMENTS AND SUGGESTIONS
AND THEY'RE IMPORTANT TO US. SO
PLEASE SEND IN YOUR COMMENTS,
AND IT WILL BE FOR THE RECORDS
LIKE TO THANK THE REST OF YOU
WHO ARE HERE? FOR PARTICIPATING
AND MY COMMITTEE. THANK YOU SO
VERY MUCH. AND THIS CONCLUDES
OUR MEETING. THANK YOU.